Dumbledore Does Lie (Re: What turned Snape)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 159037

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Steve wrote:
>
> So, I think if Snape was prevented from pressing his ear
> firmly to the door or the keyhole, and was futher
> distracted by Aberforth yelling at him, that would have
> been sufficient to prevent him from hearing the rest of
> the Prophecy.

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Laurawkids wrote: 
> <snip>
> I really want to say that there is a third way that Snape can hear
> just the first half of the prophesy:
> 
> 3)  Snape has his ear or spell to the door and hears the first 
> half. He hears the bartender coming and has to straighten up, thus 
> losing the ability to hear what ST is saying.  Bartender asks a few
> questions (and is loud enough to drown out ST) and Snape gives
> inappropriate answers, thus angering the bartender who then decides
> to let DD know that he is being spied upon by shoving Snape into 
> DD's room.  By this time Sybil is done, <snip>

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, wynnleaf wrote: 
> 
> Snape is listening at the door and the prophecy begins.  At the 
> same time Sybil starts the prophecy, the bartender is coming up  
> the stairs.  About halfway through the prophecy, the bartender 
> comes into the hallway and surprising Snape who backs away from  
> the door, thereby missing the rest of the prophecy.  The bartender 
> demands an explanation.  Snape stumbles with a few lines of 
> excuses. By that time the prophecy is done and the bartender 
> doesn't want to hear any more excuses.  The bartender opens the 
> door revealing Snape at the same time as Sybil returns to her 
> senses.  Then the bartender throws Snape out of the building.
> <snipped to below>

Mike:

I would refer all three to my post upthread. The problem with all 
three of these is that Aberforth (the bartender) does not know where 
Sibyll is at in the telling of the prophesy, he doesn't even know 
there is a prophesy being told. In what way would Albus deduce when 
an eavesdropping Snape stopped hearing the prophesy? How can Albus 
know how far along Sibyll was when Aberforth started-yelling-at-
Snape / came-into-the-hallway / Snape-moves-away-from-the-keyhole?

The timing is just too close for DD to be as certain as he was in 
his OotP explanation. We know that LV received the "thrice defied" 
line and that LV did not get the very next line, "marking him as 
equal" and "power the Dark Lord knows not" (all in the next 
sentence). Without Aberforth knowing where Sibyll was at, Albus 
cannot know when Aberforth interrupted Snape.


> wynnleaf cont:
> DD knows that Snape only heard half the prophecy because he 
> heard the bartender and Snape start arguing in the hallway 
> about halfway through the prophecy, and because he later 
> questioned the bartender and knew that Snape backed away from the 
> door when the bartender entered the hallway.

Mike again:
I just don't think you can have it both ways. You can't say that 
Snape needs to have his ear to the keyhole in order to hear the 
prophesy, but Albus can hear everything going on outside the door 
while standing up in the room (and, mark you, still listening to 
what Sibyll is saying). If Albus doesn't need to be listening at the 
keyhole to hear what's going on outside, then Snape doesn't need to 
be listening at the keyhole to hear the prophesy. Anything in 
between means that DD cannot be as certain as he was as to how much 
of the prophesy was overheard. And DD was very specific in OotP as 
to exactly how much of the prophesy was overheard.