Dumbledore and Secrecy WAS:Re: The Statute of Secrecy

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 159161

Alla wrote:
> 
> <snip> It is very funny, although let's pretend for a second that
Pippin does not hear us ;) If Dumbledore seriously thinks that he is
dying from the ring curse or if he simply plans in case of his death 
> during the fight, there is one reason why him insisting Harry not 
> telling anybody about Horcruxes would make sense - traitor in the 
> Order, IMO.

Carol responds:
Although you seem to be joking (and I'm not an ESE!Lupin fan, either),
I think you've hit on the primary reason for Dumbledore's request for
secrecy regarding the Horcruxes. VW1 (and Wormtail) showed that it's
best to trust as few people as possible with really important secrets.
Also, the one (former) Order member who can possibly help Harry with
the Horcruxes probably already knows about them--good thing, too,
since Harry thinks he's evil and wouldn't tell him under any
circumstances! 
> 
Alla wrote:
> 
> Oh, and don't forget that this explanation about prophecy only 
> important because Voldemort believes in it comes in HBP and AFAIK 
> there was nothing like that in OOP, it seemed like Dumbledore also 
> believed in the Prophecy just because it existed, to me anyways.

Carol responds:
Oddly enough, I agree with you. The question is why Dumbledore
presented it this way and what he really believes. I don't think it's
JKR tinkering with the plot to make Dumbledore look better (though her
decision to make Alice Longbottom an Auror in OoP when she wasn't one
in GoF shows that she's not above making small adjustments to placate
fans). I think that Dumbledore's actions from placing the blood
protection on the Dursley's home onward show that he does believe the
Prophecy. After all, a child born "as the seventh month dies" to Order
members who presumably have "denied [Voldemort} three times" has
survived an AK cast by the Dark Lord himself. Best to assume that the
Prophecy is true, especially since he has reason to believe that
Voldemort isn't dead. And, as you say, he certainly seems to believe
at the end of OoP that "either must die at the hand of the other."

I think that he's telling the truth in implying that Voldemort
activated or validated the Prophecy by acting on it and that it might
not otherwise have been (at this point partially) fulfilled. But Harry
does have powers that Voldemort gave him, powers that apparently
reside in his scar, so "mark him as his equal" has come true in two
senses ("mark" = scar; "equal" = powers like Parseltongue, a
particular type of Legilimency that works only with Voldemort, and IMO
the power of possession, the only other power peculiar to Voldemort
that we've seen). It must have seemed like to Dumbledore from Godric's
Hollow onward that the rest of the Prophecy could come true. And
Voldemort believes it, which insures that he'll come after Harry and
won't rest until Harry dies. 

But I also think, and here I'm only guessing, that Dumbledore is using
psychology on Harry (and in RL, psychology is the best way of getting
a teenager to do what he needs to do for his own good) in explaining
that the Prophecy is only valid because Voldemort acted on it and that
he, Harry, has the choice not to fight Voldemort. The rest of it can
go unfulfilled (but with, presumably, dire consequences for the WW). I
believe that the Prophecy *is* true to the extent that only Harry can
kill or otherwise permanently destroy Voldemort and that Dumbledore
knows it. Only Harry, apparently, can destroy the Horcruxes without
suffering irreparable damage to himself (though I think Harry will
need Snape's help either to learn the spell that destroys them or to
find a Horcrux or to heal someone hurt by a Horcrux curse). But Harry
must do it willingly, not as a victim of fate who has no choice in the
matter. (Granted, fight Voldemort or allow him to take over the WW
forever is not much of a choice, but at least Harry sees it as
fighting in the arena rather than weakly submitting to death. That's
something.)

Alla wrote:
> 
> Want to bet that Order is not holding very well, oh and also want to 
> bet that none of the Order members will give Harry significant help 
> in Horcruxes hunt in book 7? I predict all the important help will 
> come from kids or from unsuspecting adult sources - like Regulus, 
> maybe ( and that also be minor) ;)

Carol responds:
I, OTOH, am certain that he'll require help from ex-Order member Snape
and quite possibly from Lupin, Bill Weasley (the curse breaker), and
Tonks. (Her metamorphmagus abilities have to play a more significant
part than they've played so far, surely.)

Carol, hoping that the Dumbledore bashing has come to an end