Dumbledore Does Lie - Sort Of/Why didn't Snape turn Harry in?

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 159265

> Pippin:
> Thank you for illustrating the sort of pressure that got Sirius, 
Hagrid, 
> Barty Jr, and Stan Shunpike thrown in jail regardless of the 
evidence 
> because Something Must Be Done. Of course as Dumbledore says,
> the Ministry does occasionally nail the right person, if only by 
accident. 
> But is that really the behavior you want held up as the epitome of
> goodness?

Magpie:
But who said anything about throwing him in jail?  Dumbledore does 
know that Draco is guilty--it's not like at the end he says anything 
about holding off until he got proof.  He's not looking for proof--
he's not looking to act on Draco's "crime" in any way but to protect 
him and try to get him on a better path.  He *does* share Harry's 
suspicions of Draco--they're actually more than suspicions for him. 
And Dumbledore's never been a particular mouthpiece for needing 
evidence to know what's going on. 

Pippin: 
> I know Dumbledore didn't express any interest in Harry's
> suspicions of Draco. But that doesn't mean he didn't share
> them. We know Dumbledore was not sure of himself and did 
> not think he had everything under control. Hagrid 
> says he was worried sick after Ron was poisoned. Dumbledore
> told Snape to continue his investigations, so we know he was
> in fact doing something. So why not involve Harry?

Magpie
Yes, but involving Harry isn't the point.  The point is that 
Dumbledore dismisses Harry's suspicions because he knows more about 
the situation than Harry does, not because he just can't believe 
Draco's the one without physical proof.  Acting on Harry's 
suspicions that final night wouldn't even have had to have anything 
to do with Malfoy, since Harry doesn't know for sure who was 
whooping.  Seems to me Dumbledore's mistake is that he doesn't think 
anyone can get through the castle's defenses, not that he was 
hamstrung by suddenly not being sure of himself about what was going 
on, which is what he seems to say outright when the subject comes up.

Hagrid's report of Dumbledore's state of mind is naturally flawed.  
He says Dumbledore is worried sick and doesn't know what's going on, 
but also says that Dumbledore says little about it--iow, this is 
Hagrid's projection.  Hagrid is far more clueless than Dumbledore. 
He says Dumbledore's probably got "hundreds" of ideas about who is 
responsible for the attempted murders but doesn't know who did it 
because if he did know *they'd've been caught, wouldn' they?*  But 
Dumbledore later tells us that of course he had a good idea of who 
did it--Draco.  He says nothing about not being sure.  Draco even 
challenges him on Hagrid's perception--why didn't he stop Draco if 
he "knew" Draco was guilty.  Dumbledore answers not that he didn't 
have proof but that he was *trying* to stop him--for example, 
through Snape.  Both Hagrid and Hermione offer conclusions in that 
chapter that push us in the opposite direction than the real answer.

Dumbledore's line about investigations in Slytherin is I think 
intentionally quite ambiguous--he could very well be referring to 
Snape's surveillance of Draco.  Regardless of whether Dumbledore was 
100% sure about Draco being the culprit (and I see no sign that he 
wasn't), his behavior about suspicions of Draco is explained by his 
trying to handle the Malfoy/Voldemort situation not by his needing 
proof.  This just isn't set up as Dumbledore protecting Draco from 
Harry's unfair accusations.  It's Dumbledore trying to handle the 
Draco situation in his own way and wanting Harry off the track. (And 
while Dumbledore's own surveillance of Draco might not be 24/7, he 
does have Snape on it.)

I thought Sherry and Alla were just pointing out that Dumbledore's 
not acting on Harry's reported whooping for the same reason he 
doesn't act on any of Harry's warnings throughout the year--he knows 
more about the situation than Harry and thinks it's under control.  

I have to admit I agree with them about the idea that hearing about 
Trelawney would have so changed Dumbledore's mind and made him head 
to the RoR.  Why?  People keep talking about a teacher 
being "assaulted" but she's not assaulted or attacked.  She's 
strongarmed out of the room.  She walks in, calls out, the room goes 
pitch black (due to a powder bought at the local joke shop run by 
Hogwarts favorites) and the person throws her out of the room like a 
bouncer would throw out an unwanted patron.  She's already drunk so 
it's not like Malfoy has to throw her down or kick her leave her 
sprawled on the ground.  There's nothing that I can see that makes 
the situation very different if Dumbledore knows that the person 
whooping in the RoR also wants privacy.  It's certainly not 
acceptable behavior for a student to a teacher, but I don't think 
it's something Dumbledore would have stopped anything to do 
something about.  

-m