How to make a horcrux -- and what to do with them

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 159302

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Diego Sueiro" wrote:
>
> Steve/bboyminn:
> >  But, it is only at this later time that he is initially
> >  asking Slughorn about Horcruxes and how they work. So,
> >  we must assume that it was some time after that that
> >  he completed his research into Horcruxes and actually
> >  makes a Horcrux from their deaths. Consequently, that
> >  implies there can't be any advance preparation process
> >  as part of the creation of a Horcrux.
> >
> 
> Diego:
> Although I'm not completly sure about this, I think it's possible 
> that, when asking Slughorn, Tom just wanted his opinion on making
> several Horcruxes, not about the process itself, which he might
> have known beforehand. <snip>

Mike:
I was glad to see that someone else holds to the theory that Tom's 
real focus was on Slughorn's opinion of *multiple Horcruxes*. 
Dumbledore himself said that what Tom particularly wanted to know 
from Horace was the multiple Horcrux angle. IMHO, Tom already knew 
how to make a Horcrux and, in fact, had already made one. He found a 
book or something that not only mentioned Horcruxes but explained 
them. 

I think we were all relying too much on Hermione's experience of 
finding the term and getting no explanation. Isn't it far more 
likely that 50 years ago, Tom found a book which didn't have any 
moral restrictions on information? In fact, who would really expect 
to find a book that only mentions Horcruxes to simply denounce them 
as *too* dark, Hermione certainly thought it was ridiculous.

I have no problem believing that Tom was saying all the right things 
and showing the right level of knowledge (lack of knowledge really) 
that would convince Slughorn and other viewers of that scene that he 
had no idea about Horcruxes, when he actually had already had made 
one. Besides, Slughorn didn't tell him how to make a Horcrux and yet 
we know he still learned. Why is it so hard to believe that he 
learned prior to questioning Sluggy, at the same time that he 
learned the term?

Finally, remember what Dumbledore said about about multiple 
Horcruxes after exiting the pensieve: "No book would have given him 
that information. As far as I know - as far, I am sure, as Voldemort 
knew - no wizard had ever done more than tear his soul in two." (HBP 
p.500, US) 

Notice that Dumbledore is revealing that Tom learned about Horcruxes 
from a book. How would Tom know he has to ask Slughorn about 
multiple Horcruxes unless he had already found out that he would not 
get that information from a book? He must have already known about 
Horcruxes but he didn't get the multiple information, yet. DD knew 
going in that Tom knew what a Horcrux was and how to make them, 
before asking Slughorn.


> Diego:
> With respect to having made a Horcrux or not at that point, that 
> is another matter. The fact that he is still wearing the ring
> and his Modus Operandi (making an Horcrux and hiding it) seems to
> imply that he had not. <snip>

Mike:
Actually, it appears that hiding his Horcruxes is a more recent 
development. He gave the diary to Lucius shortly before GH. To those 
that hold to the theory that Bella was given the locket to hide, 
that too must be more recent. In any case, for Regulus to have 
learned about LV's Horcruxes must have come after he graduated in 
June 1979, and he must have heard about the hiding (or attempt to 
hide) in the sea cave (by Bella?), which indicates that that Horcrux 
was not yet in place either. 

Besides, who says the ring was his first Horcrux, maybe the diary 
was first. What are the chances that Tom was relying on picking up a 
valuable heirloom from Morfin to make his Horcrux from his father's 
murder? Isn't it more likely that, if he was intending to make a 
Horcrux and you have to have the object with you as per RavenHeart's 
(and my) scenario, Tom had that object in hand when he set out on 
this adventure? And we know he had already stored the memory in the 
diary. 


> Diego:
> And the fact that, after having observed this same memory, 
> Dumbledore still believes (or at least says so) that Tom used
> his father's death to make a Horcrux (it doesn't matter if that's
> right or wrong), seems to allow for the possibility of making a 
> Horcrux way after murdering. I don't think that Albus didn't 
> know how to make a Horcrux, but, as stated by Professor 
> McGonagall, he was just too noble to do it.

Mike:
I agree with you on Dumbledore's Horcrux knowledge. But, I would 
like to point out that Dumbledore could just as easily understood 
that Tom brought his Horcrux object with him, if that is indeed 
required by the procedure. IOW, if the procedure requires the object 
be present at the beginning and he believes Tom made his first 
Horcrux with his father's death, then he naturally assumes that Tom 
brought the object with him. He wouldn't be expounding on it since 
he isn't teaching Harry how to make one.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

This thread thread brings up a question that has been nagging me. 
Why does Voldemort start dispersing his Horcruxes and why does he 
want them hidden? Surely he doesn't expect anyone to best him in 
combat and take his Horcruxes (let alone get *killed* by a baby). 
Why would he think dispersing and hiding helps him?

I understand the diary. He wants to eventually deploy it and Lucius 
still being a fine upstanding member of the wizarding community 
would be the best vehicle for that eventual deployment. But the 
others? From Dumbledore, we get the impression that the rest were 
still in LV's possession until shortly before GH, not immediately 
before but not that much before. 

Since the Aurors had never found his hideouts (at least we were 
never told they had), and the safest place has got to be in his 
possession where he can keep an eye on them, defend them and 
whatnot, why send them out to be hidden? This tactic of Voldemort's 
is even made more perplexing if you believe Dumbledore's comment 
that Voldemort thinks that he alone knows of his Horcruxes.

Opinions? Guesses? More info?

Mike, still confused by Voldemort's master plan.