[HPforGrownups] Re: Hi everyone -- banning the books - Some clarification on the term "witch"

Jordan Abel random832 at gmail.com
Wed Oct 11 23:07:30 UTC 2006


No: HPFGUIDX 159481

[I would like to note first that I do not believe that the lack of a
continuously existing tradition makes Wicca in any way illegitimate.
There's nothing wrong with revivals.]

Aleyna:
> > Actually, the term "witch" has been used by Wiccans, like myself,
> > and others who practice the Old Ways since about 2000 B.C.,<snip>

Random832:
The term "witch" has been used by Wiccans _as such_ since, at the
earliest, 1921 C.E. I didn't want to get into this unless it was
disputed, but it's generally accepted that Wicca does _not_ have a
continuously existing tradition from before that. Perhaps the term
"witch" was used "since about 2000 B.C."*  but at some later time it
_stopped_ being used in that sense, and the meaning as used throughout
the modern era until the 20th century became the sole meaning. And
even if it is a linguistic throwback rather than a neologism, that
still doesn't give it the right to edge out the established meaning.

*(unlikely as at that time the germanic-language-speaking world had a
quite different "old faith" than the one you're thinking of, one now
known as Asatru, and celtic peoples would not have used the germanic
word "witch".)

Tesha:
> Witch came first - witch meaning something bad came later...

Random832:
I didn't say "meaning something bad" (those who think that witchcraft
in the broomsticks/potions/etc sense is "something bad" are likely not
going to be common on an HP list) of course, but... i meant meanings
unrelated to Wicca, or even to the older religions of which Wicca can
be considered a revival.

Tesha:
> The dictionary says witch- [from Middle English wicche, from Old
> English wicce, witch, and wicca, wizard, sorcerer.] meanings range
> from someone awfully good at what they do or just plain awful.

Random832:
Sounds rather like "hacker" in that way, but I digress.

Tesha:
> When Christianity overran the formerly Pagan lands, they used all
> sorts of ways to convert folks, one was to demonize the local powers
> if they wouldn't convert. As an example... Women skilled in healing
> were suddenly in league with the devil, and burned as witches or
> otherwise removed from society.

Random832:
Except in its early centuries Christianity's policy towards
"witchcraft" was far from established. At one point it was declared
"un-christian" to burn people as witches. There's a Red Hen essay that
says that at some later time, the status quo was that magic is okay so
long as it does not involve demons (implicitly or explicitly
acknowledging that magic is in fact possible without demons, and in
those cases is okay)




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