[HPforGrownups] Re: Sympathy to the characters WAS: Respecting the Dursleys

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 159735

> Pippin:
> Oh, it's in the text alright.
>
> "Their daring, nerve and chivalry/Set Gryffindors apart"
>
> It's the chivalry that sets the Gryffs apart from the "any
> means to achieve their ends" Slytherins.
>
> After all, the Slytherins are also daring and resourceful, the
> difference being, as Phineas points out, that they save their
> own skins first.

Magpie:
In fiction, what characters do is generally more convincing than what people 
say about them.  They may make claims to chivalry, they certainly see 
themselves as chivalrous, but there are plenty of actual scenes 
demonstrating that they do not shrink away from having fun with someone who 
is overpowered.  I suspect in boarding school books of the past you would 
see this sort of thing in action a lot more.  We would probably see more 
older students putting a stop to fights between younger ones and never 
raising a hand to one.

Pippin:>
> Percy has age, authority, twelve OWLs and Molly on his side.
> I think he'd be highly insulted if you told him he was weaker
> than the Twins.

Magpie:
I think he knows perfectly well that when they go after him two against one 
they're intimidating him. But I will give Percy the fact that he's older 
than they are, even if I think they do take advantage of ways they have more 
power.

Pippin:
> When the Twins do go after someone weaker than themselves
> they get called on it,  usually by the Gryffs themselves. Hermione
> tries to protect the first years, and while she doesn't entirely
> succeed, the Twins seem to regard it as a fair cop and don't
> retaliate against her, contrary to what Ron seems to fear
> (perhaps because he is the one with the mean
> streak.)

Magpie:
Yes, Hermione sometimes scolds them for it--and they still do it. It's not 
exactly a taboo, then.  Hermione scolds for a lot of things.

And the idea that Ron is the one with the mean streak continues to amaze me. 
Not seeing how he's so set apart from some of his family there and in fact 
would be totally defeated in a mean-off were they ever to have one.

Pippin:
> The cabinet was not chivalrous, and Hermione  considers
> turning the twins in.

Magpie:
She doesn't exactly consider turning them in.  Hermione, upon seeing the 
Montagues coming to the school weeks later, worriedly asks if they shouldn't 
somehow explain what happened in case it will help Montague get better.  The 
twins may actually be already gone at this point, I can't remember.  She 
could do this without turning the Twins themselves in, but she's quickly 
convinced not to say anything when the boys counter more trouble for 
Umbridge is a good thing.  So no, not seeing much horror here at the whole 
thing.

There are moments in canon where Gryffindor characters are held back by a 
sense that going after a certain person would be bullying.  It's just that 
there are plenty of other times when they aren't. Since we end up with a 
canon where the most examples of aggression against the weaker come from 
Gryffindors (their being the main characters so the ones we see do most 
everything) I can't take seriously the idea that this is something so 
naturally repellent to them.  That's why, imo, James is a perfectly good 
example of them.  He no doubt sees himself as a defender of the weak and 
acts that role at times, but also finds times when it's okay to do the 
opposite.  They definitely have an image of themselves as protectors of the 
weak, enemy of bullies everywhere, but I don't think that particular 
self-image is the best way to avoid ever abusing your power. I don't think 
it was back in the traditional days of chivalry either.

-m