Dumbledore does Lie-Part II, Snape Turned

[Neri]

No: HPFGUIDX 159862

> Mike:
> <snip> 
> Problem #1: Dumbledore is allowing Snape (LV's spy) to tail him.
> 

Neri:
We don't know that Snape indeed tried to tail Dumbledore. I think he 
was probably subtler than Dawlish. For all we know, Snape may have 
just rented a room in the Hog's Head and applied for a post at 
Hogwarts, exactly as Trelawney did. His mission seems to have been 
long-term infiltration rather than tailing.


> Mike: 
> Problem #3: Snape-the-DE is allowed to roam freely in the H.H.
> 

Neri:
Why do you assume that Dumbledore knows Snape is a DE at this time? I 
doubt Voldemort would have sent Snape to spy at Hogwarts in the first 
place if he had any reason to think Dumbledore already knows what 
Snape is. 


> Mike again:
> 
> Now, I invite anyone to answer this question:
> 
> Why doesn't Dumbledore hit Snape with an "Obliviate" and erase any 
> memory of the prophesy from Snape?
>

Neri:
Dumbledore may not know at this point that Snape is a DE. Snape has a 
good cover story for listening at the door: he is interested in a 
post himself and looking for tips (it may even be true, in the sense 
that he needed to get a post in order to infiltrate into Hogwarts, 
and therefore indeed attempted to get these tips). This merits 
throwing out of the building, perhaps, but not an Obliviate.

Dumbledore probably doesn't know at this point how much Snape had 
managed to hear of the prophecy, if he had heard anything at all. It 
is possible that only when Snape "turned", perhaps months or even 
more than a year after that, he told Dumbledore what he had heard.

But most of all, at this point when Dumbledore hears the prophecy, he 
has no way to know it's a true prophecy. He has already reached the 
conclusion that Trelawney is a fraud. Her words don't include any 
information that he can verify at this moment, except that he may 
know already (or not) that both the Potters and the Longbottoms 
escaped Voldemort three times, but this isn't much of a verification. 
Dumbledore may not even know that Lily and/or Alice are pregnant, if 
they even *are* already pregnant at this point. He surely doesn't 
know yet that Neville and Harry are going to be born in the end of 
July. So at this point the prophecy might be just worthless mumbo 
jumbo to him. Dumbledore may think it's just not worth obliviating 
someone who *might* be a DE because he *might* have heard some part 
of something that *might* be important.

My question is: what is your alternative theory? Do you propose that 
Dumbledore just hears the prophecy, and in few moments, before even 
knowing when (or if) Harry is going to be born, before knowing if and 
how Voldemort is going to mark Harry, before knowing that James and 
Lily are going to be killed, before knowing Lily's sacrifice will 
protect Harry, before knowing Voldemort would become vapor, 
Dumbledore already has a plan that includes telling Voldemort the 
first part of the prophecy? So what was this plan??? 


> Mike:
> <snip>
> "Do you see the flaw in my brilliant plan now? I had fallen into 
the 
> trap I had forseen, that I told myself I could avoid, that I must 
> avoid."
> "I don't --"
> "I cared about you too much," said Dumbledore simply. "I cared more 
> for your happiness than your knowing the truth, more for your peace 
> of mind than my plan, more for your life than the lives that might 
> be lost if the plan failed...."
> (OotP p.838, US)
> 
> What trap was Dumbledore telling himself he could avoid, must 
> avoid? !Caring about Harry! His plan did not include caring about 
> Harry, that was the trap to avoid. He admits it! He had *planned* 
to 
> be a cold-hearted ba***rd and to follow his *plan*. What more do 
you 
> need? 
>

Neri:
If your theory is correct then Dumbledore's words "I cared more for 
your happiness than your knowing the truth" are going to sound 
extremely ironic, because he *wasn't* telling Harry the truth when he 
said that. He was lying to him. But maybe this is what is 
called "ironic juxtaposition"? <g>


Neri