Draco and Dumbledore WAS: Re: Dumbledore Does Lie - Sort Of

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 159962

> Pippin:
> A child's intent is by definition not fully formed. If adults entice a
> child to kill and help him to obtain weapons, then it is they who have
> the murderous intent, not he, and they who need to be locked up
> for the safety of others. 

a_svirn:
By what definition? There is an ongoing debate on whether or not
children should be fully responsible for their actions. No one ever
doubted, however, that they are capable of forming intent and
committing crime. Besides, at sixteen Draco is hardly a child. In real
life certain allowances would be made for him but certainly not to a
point of dropping the chargers. In the world where seventeen is the
age of majority this argument seems even less valid. Voldemort had at
least four murders on his conscience at sixteen, would you shrug them
off on the ground that he was but a child? And finally, if you are
right, and Draco was too young to be held responsible, it follows that
he was too young to be allowed a choice. 

>Piipin: 
> Granted, Draco's half-formed intentions were very dangerous and 
> could have caused several deaths,  

a_svirn:
They weren't "half-formed". They were fully formed and executed. 


>Piipin: 
but the same could be said of 
> many other Hogwarts students including Harry, Ron and Hermione. 
> Preventing this sort of thing is extremely
> difficult, because the kids try things that no sane adult would
> even imagine, like stealing thestrals and flying off to the Ministry
> to challenge Voldemort, or poisoning a bottle bound for a castle 
> with hundreds of people in it on the off chance that it might reach 
> your target.

a_svirn:
Actually, it's a very different sort of thing. The former is a rescue
attempt, while the latter is a murder attempt. I am a little surprised
that you cannot tell the difference. 

>Pippin:
> I don't think the mead would have done much damage if it had
> arrived at its intended destination. Dumbledore wasn't as
> ostentatiously paranoid about what he drank as Moody is, but
> except for the cave I don't believe we ever saw him him drink
> anything that wasn't prepared by the Hogwarts Elves or conjured
> by his own magic. The bottle would probably have ended up
> in the RoR's storehouse of discarded items, where there seem
> to have been plenty of weapons and potions handy. 

a_svirn:
Say you are right – for the sake of argument. Where does it leave us?
So because Dumbledore felt reasonably secure himself, he allowed Draco
to continue, even though his activity put others in jeopardy?  I'd say
you are a bit hard on the old man. 

Pippin:
> Sirius's case is different. He was thought to be insane, which
> AFAWK would have denied him a trial in any case, and the 
> evidence against him was overwhelming. 

a_svirn:
I don't remember it's said anywhere in canon that people can avoid
trial on the ground of insanity. Besides, in that case, Sirius would
have ended up in St Mungo, rather than in Azkaban.