Draco and Dumbledore/ Molly and Harry-Treated like Family

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 160061

> a_svirn:
> But neither of them could be sure that the precautions would be 
> enough, could they? Especially since – as you yourself pointed out – 
> they didn't know what it was Draco worked on. With so many lives at 
> stake wouldn't it be more, well, logical, to err on the side of 
> caution? 

Carol responds:
How? I still don't understand what you expected them to do, especially
given the restraints that the UV placed on Snape (and on DD, who
couldn't confront Draco directly). We have Snape preventing Draco from
engaging in any more amateurish stunts that randomly injure students
(as opposed to the three people actually in danger from Draco's as yet
unknown plan), the Order in Hogsmeade and (I think) Tonks tailing
Harry in an Invisibility Cloak, locks on the gates, the known passages
watched, no owl correspondence, the usual spy network in the Hogs Head
and maybe the Three Broomsticks, students searched coming from and
even going to Hogsmeade, an anti-flying charm, and perhaps extra
protections we don't know about. And we have the Order actually inside
Hogwarts when DD leaves for the Horcrux hunt. What more could they
have done, short of arresting Draco, which they couldn't do without
triggering the UV even if they didn't care about such matters as
choices and civil rights.
> 
> > Carol:
> > The lives that were in danger (other than Draco's own) were Snape's
> > and Dumbledore's, and, yes, Dumbledore did what he could to protect
> > all three lives, mostly by staying out of Draco's way. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> By no means. Dumbledore could console himself with this reflection 
> until Katie almost died, but not after that. 

Carol:
I disagree. That's why Snape cornered Draco and talked to him about
amateurish tricks. It was too late to stop the mead, which Slughorn
had already purchased, but there were no more blundering attempts that
could go astray after that.

Carol earlier:
> And Dumbledore took protective measures there, too. Note that the
Order was on duty the night that DD left with Harry to look for the
Horcrux. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> Which didn't work, because they didn't know what exactly they should 
> protect. And neither did Dumbledore. Yet he ignored the warning and 
> sallied forth. 

Carol:
Which leads me to believe that he knew the confrontation with Draco
was inevitable and that it was urgent to find this one Horcrux while
DD was still alive. (Yes, it was a fake, but he didn't know that, and
finding the fake Horcrux is a step toward finding the real one, not a
dead end.) And the Order did protect the school. No students other
than the DA five were in danger. Someone other than Harry (I think it
was Snape, but I know you don't agree) petrified Fenrir Greyback, and
Snape got the DEs out of the school.
> 
Carol:
> And note that Snape's action (killing Dumbledore himself, probably
on his orders) saved Draco from the DEs, after which he hurried the
DEs off the tower before Harry could rush out and fight them and
ordered them out of Hogwarts, saving  Harry from a Crucio on the way.
> 
> a_svirn:
> I do note it. If Dumbledore's and Snape's main concern throughout 
> the year was saving Draco, then yes, he did everything right. 

Carol:
Or saving Draco and Snape, at his own expense. Glad we agree there.
(BTW, even DD himself could have been spared if he hadn't chosen to
fly to the tower and confront Draco after avoiding him all year. Why
didn't he choose to have Snape heal him at the Three Broomsticks and
leave fighting the DEs to the Order? *That's* the decision that led to
tragedy and triggered the Vow. Why did he do it?
> 
> a_svirn:
> If the Order member could stop the DE they would have done it. As it 
> was the DA members' contribution was very welcome. Certainly 
> students weren't safe from the death eaters. Grayback was drooling 
> anticipating throats to be ripped, and others would likely have had 
> their fun as well. 

Carol:
Most of the Death Eaters were focused on getting Draco to kill
Dumbledore. Those who were left behind were contained by the Order
(having helpfully AKd one of their own people. I don't see that having
Neville, Ron, and Ginny in the fight made much difference. If it
weren't for Felix, they might have been dead. And once Greyback came
down from the tower, an Order member (Snape?) petrified him. Granted,
he did mutilate Bill's face earlier, and I don't know why he wasn't
stunned or petrified then. Call it JKR's plot need to have him
slavering on the tower. If it weren't for his desire to have
Dumbledore for "afters," Snape probably wouldn't have sent DD over the
battlements. That Snape did so made it possible for him to clear the
tower; there was no body for Greyback to rip apart.


a_svirn:
> Sorry. I should have said that following your own logic Snape 
> couldn't do much of anything because of the UV (which means that his 
> surveillance was useless), and when he did interfere he only made 
> matters worse, since thanks to his interference Draco graduated from 
> amateurish stunts to professional terrorism.

Carol:
Not necessarily. He and DD did the best they could under the
circumstances, and the amateurish tactics were more dangerous to the
students as a whole by their very randomness than what Draco was up to
in the RoR--until the time for the confrontation, which I've already
discussed at length. Besides, "professional terrorism" was the
original plan, the one Draco was working on from the beginning (see
"Draco's Detour," the plan that he told Snape was taking longer than
he expected. Eliminating the dangerous random murder attempts limited
him to Plan A, which was already in effect before the beginning of the
school year. 

Dumbledore (and probably Snape) knew quite well that Draco was up to
something dangerous in the RoR, something involving getting DEs into
Hogwarts so that he could make his murder attempt with backup. That's
why it was so urgent for Harry to get the memory from Slughorn and to
go after the locket Horcrux while there was still time. And that's why
Dumbledore stationed the Order members in Hogwarts that night *before*
Harry told him about the whoop.

Carol, still believing that DD knew exactly what he was doing and that
he had no time to lose