Draco and Dumbledore LONGish

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 160174

> > Alla:
<SNIP>
>> > But most importantly, it would be quite cool if that was indeed 
> > true, Dumbledore knowing that he is choosing between two evils, 
but 
> > I am **not** sure at all that JKR means to show Dumbledore as 
> > choosing between two evils.
> 
> Renee:
> Well. Let's see. 
> 
> On the one hand we have a large body of students, some of whom may
> fall foul of another student's next amateurish attempt to murder 
his
> headmaster, and who deserve to be protected. Measures taken to this
> effect, culminating in a direct confrontation between the student 
and
> his Head of House, may not be enough to do so (though it has been
> argued that said confrontation had precisely this effect and it is
> very well possible that Dumbledore honestly believes this to be the
> case).  

Alla:

I  just realised that am geting confused - why are we arguing that 
Dumbledore have to choose between two evils here in the first place? 
Protecting students seems to be be the **right** thing to do to me, 
not necessary evil.


Renee: 
> On the other hand, we have 
> 1) a lack of hard evidence that will make legal action very 
unlikely,
> which means that DD will have to resort to dubious means to 
restrain
> the adspirant murderer. (Does the end hallow the means? Would 
making
> DD acting out of character result in a better story?) 
> 2) a student whose soul is in peril but who certainly will not see 
the
> light if he is forcefully restrained - any chance DD ever had to 
keep
> him from the wrong path, will be lost. 

Alla:

Yes, I said several times before that I do get the "saving Draco's 
soul" story that JKR seems to be telling and I also said that this 
only works for me if I pretend that other students do not exist :)

But why everybody is so sure that Draco would be refusing the deal?

It is what a_svirn said upthread if Dumbledore corners Draco, 
forcibly, yes, I think poor dear will survive that, if he signed up 
for murders and all that, who says that he will refuse that deal 
necessarily?

Maybe Dumbledore indeed can get him to the breaking point where he 
will accept?

Renee:  
> 3) a possible new assassin may step in. Do you think Lucius Malfoy 
is
> the only deat-eating father of a student who failed Voldemort at 
the
> MoM? Identifying him/her will be a lot more difficult, assuming 
it's
> not Crabbe or Goyle...    

Alla:

Of course not, but Malfoys seem to be the family against whom 
Voldemort wants revenge, so I am not sure that Voldemort will have a 
new assassin ready right away, but well, they will deal with it if 
it comes, I think they should deal with danger at head first. IMO.

 Renee:
     
> 4) if Draco is restrained, a very effective teacher and spy whom DD
> believes to play an important role in the war against Voldemort 
will
> either die, or feel forced to do Draco's job for him. He may even
> succeed, as DD is weakened by his destruction of the Ring Horcrux.

Alla:

Um, you do know, that considerations of Snape safety, life and 
liberty matters significantly less for me than even Draco's? ;)

Considering what I used to feel about Draco, that is very telling. :)

It is funny, because while I want Snape suffer very very much, while 
I was not moved by Draco's going to pieces in book 6 and used to 
think that his possible redemption would not touch me either, when I 
think about it, it seems to me that JKR satisfied my bloodfirstiness 
about little git in HBP and maybe, just maybe she will touch me a 
little bit with his story in book 7. Funny indeed.


Renee:
> Result: DD is dead, the students are in greater danger than they 
ever
> were from Draco, Draco himself may be found and killed anyway, 
Harry
> will not learn everything he needs to learn about the Horcruxes,
> Voldemort may not be vanquished at all and countless people will 
suffer.

Alla:

That is certainly one of the possibilities you portrayed. Can I 
suggest something less grim? :)

Draco accepts Dumbledore's protection offer because by that time he 
realises that murder attempts do upset his sensitive soul or maybe 
he just does not want to die and does not want his family to die 
from the Voldemort's hand and is being protected by the order in the 
safe place.

Snape is not able to kill Dumbledore and dies, but Dumbledore is 
alive and well, Harry learns about Horcruxes from him and they do 
continue to search for **all** of them together, Harry is not stuck 
in the middle of the way, because Dumbledore is dead, courtesy of 
his most effective spy?

And they live happily ever after, all but Snape :)

 
> Renee:
> If you believe there was a third option in HBP, I'm curious to know
> what it was. And I really hope you're not comparing DD to the
> executives of Enron, for that would mean JKR has failed 
spectacularly
> to convey DD's moral stature and fundamentally benign intentions 
to you.
> 
> Not that I think she's done a perfect job here, but as far as I'm
> concerned, she more or less succeeded to get her intentions 
across.  

Alla:

No, I do not, this was just first RL example that jumped on me. I 
wanted to suggest something related to my job, but did not want to 
go into specifics, but no I like Dumbledore better than that and as 
to third option, as I said - I do not think it was really needed.


Dungrollin:
> > Personally, I think Snape is a seriously useful chap to have 
> around.
> 
> a_svirn:
> More useful than a bunch of children that's for sure. Thank Merlin 
> Dumbledore got his priorities straight.
>
Alla:

LOLOL. Indeed.

JMO,

Alla