CHAPDISC: HBP 23, Horcruxes

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 160275

Goddlefrood
> 2. Do you think there is any significance in the Astronomy Tower 
being the Bloody Baron's favourite haunt (pun intended) when it is 
also later the scene of Dumbledore's death?

Ceridwen:
It's possible that the Bloody Baron could be a witness to the events 
on the tower, or at least some of them.  I doubt if a ghost's 
testimony would be taken seriously in a court of law such as the 
Wizengamot, but his information could help the Order.

Goddlefrood
> 3. What other business would you think Dumbledore had to attend to 
after midnight on a school night, as alluded to by Nick?

Ceridwen:
He had just returned to the school.  He probably had thoughts to sort 
out in the Pensieve, as well as tying up any lose administrative ends 
that he had let go while he was out.

Goddlefrood
> 4. However insignificant the distinction, is the difference in the 
description of Slughorn's wagging finger between the two versions 
perhaps a clue to something?

Ceridwen:
I think, along with others, that this is just variation of 
description to make the same story easier to read a second time.

Goddlefrood
> 5. This segment of his memory, although perhaps embarrassing and no 
longer a view that Slughorn holds, does not appear to do any harm to 
Slughorn, unlike the later part regarding Horcruxes, so why do you 
think he covered up this portion from his fogged memory?

Ceridwen:
I think that in hindsight, Slughorn is embarrassed that he spent so 
much time on Tom Riddle and thought he could become Minister of 
Magic.  He shows himself earlier making some prophetic judgement of 
Tom's coming to ruin, he may just have wanted to appear wise beyond 
what would have logically been expected.  Maybe he's jealous of 
Dumbledore's apparent prescience?

Goddlefrood
> 6. Why would Uncle Horace become excited when describing Horcruxes?

Ceridwen:
He wasn't, he was nervous.  Tom Riddle was excited.

Goddlefrood
> 7. Was Tom Riddle initially listening to information he already 
possessed, or did he have no knowledge of Horcruxes at all prior to 
this conversation?

Ceridwen:
I think he had a very good idea of what a horcrux was, and a general 
idea of what needed to be done to make one.  He may have been trying 
to find out exactly how to do it, what spell to use, where to find 
it, in order to get it done; but it seemed to me that he became more 
and more agitated as he led Slughorn to the question of how many 
horcruxes could reasonably be made.  I don't have the book with me 
right now, but didn't he get more flushed, and his eyes more glittery 
or glowing, as he pressed this particular question?  I think he had 
generalities and a basic understanding.  He merely wanted specifics.

Goddlefrood
> 8. What compelled Horace to continue answering Tom's questions when 
he was clearly described as being uneasy about the subject, was it 
more than just a natural conversation in other words?

Ceridwen:
It was probably one of those nightmare conversations with someone 
that Slughorn thought he knew, but was beginning to suspect he didn't 
know at all.  He continued to answer because Tom pressed him, and at 
the time Tom was one of his more favorite students.  He probably kept 
telling himself that this couldn't be for the reason it seemed to be, 
but for research or a healthy interest in all things magic instead.

He did seem to learn his lesson.  When Harry brings up horcruxes, he 
avoids Harry after that.  Either he learned from hindsight again, or 
he also avoided Tom after this conversation, I think.

Goddlefrood
> 9. Without going too deeply into the nature of Horcruxes, as that 
aspect has been discussed almost ad nauseam, do you think Voldemort 
actually has or had seven soul pieces, six of which are or were 
Horcruxes?

Ceridwen:
Yes, I think he did have seven pieces including the core soul which 
resides in his body now, and was cast adrift when his old body was 
destroyed at Godrick's Hollow.  I think he made the sixth and last 
horcrux after his return, since he had been meaning to make a horcrux 
with Harry's significant death.  His agenda called for seven, when he 
returned, he made his last.

Goddlefrood
> 10. How had Dumbledore acquired his knowledge of Horcruxes and why 
was it such thorough knowledge?

Ceridwen:
Slughorn told Tom Riddle that it was Dumbledore who had the topic 
banned at Hogwarts.  Since Dumbledore the student had no hand in 
policymaking, he probably learned something about horcruxes in 
school, most likely in the DADA class or whatever it was called 150 
or so years ago.  He may have followed up on this education when he 
became a teacher or apprenticed to be one (we don't know how WW 
teachers get their credentials).  And he may have had call to look 
them up again when he faced the Dark Wizard Grindelwald, too, if that 
wizard had made a horcrux.  

Goddlefrood
> 11. Did Lord Voldemort treat the Diary Horcrux carelessly as 
Dumbledore suggests or is there more to its destruction than 
initially met the eye?

Ceridwen:
He apparently left it with Lucius Malfoy without stressing thoroughly 
enough how valuable it was to him, and how cautiously it should be 
used.  It didn't seem to have the same sorts of protections on it as 
the ring horcrux, since it was also meant to be an interactive piece 
of dark magic to be used in opening the Chamber of Secrets.  By not 
stressing its value to Lucius Malfoy, possibly because he didn't want 
LM to get too curious about it, he was a bit careless.

Goddlefrood
> 12. Would you agree that there are four Horcruxes to find, and if 
not why not?

Ceridwen:
Yes, four:  The locket, the Hufflepuff cup, the object belonging to 
Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, and probably Nagini, who is with Voldemort 
and won't be destroyed until almost the end.

Goddlefrood
> 13. As far as I recall the Sorting Hat was whipped from the head of 
Godric Gryffindor (with the implication nthat it was his), so why 
would Dumbledore not at least make a mention of this?

Ceridwen:
As others have mentioned, it received the thought processes of all 
the founders and so became more of a universal artifact than one 
specific to Gryffindor.  I don't know why this wouldn't make it more 
of a prize to LV, unless he knows the addage that one shouldn't trust 
an object that can think for itself.

Goddlefrood
> 14. Do you agree with Dumbledore that Nagini is a Horcrux and if so 
did he conclude this when consulting his machine in OotP or from some 
other source?

Ceridwen:
This would certainly explain the divided snake head and Dumbledore's 
comment about 'in essence divided' as well as any other explanation 
offered.

Goddlefrood
> 15. At this advanced stage of the series do you think that the 
summary of the remaining Horcruxes is correct or think that 
Dumbledore is wrong, as he himself professes to be on occasion?

Ceridwen:
I think that if Dumbledore is wrong about any of the horcruxes, it 
will only be one, and there will be an almost immediate revelation 
about the true horcrux so there won't be a lot of time spent on it.

Goddlefrood
> 16. Do you agree that Lord Voldemort is unaware when a Horcrux is 
destroyed and if so, and given that he knows of the loss of the Diary 
Horcrux, do you think he would create another?

Ceridwen:
No.  Seven was the mystic number, and LV is superstitious about 
things.  He was too angry when one was destroyed, I think, for it to 
be no big deal to him to create another one.  He sets store by the 
number seven, so making another one would mess that up in his mind.

Goddlefrood
> 17. Why does Dumbledore not categorically say that Lord Voldemort 
could be killed if his Horcruxes are destroyed, but only that it will 
take uncommon skill and power to kill him?

Ceridwen:
I think this is cautionary advice not to get too cocky once the 
horcruxes are destroyed.  LV is still a formidable wizard, and he is 
harboring the last, the core, soul.  Destroying the horcruxes does 
not weaken him, so beware.

Goddlefrood
> 18. Lord Voldemort is said to be a powerful and gifted wizard so 
why would he set such store by the Prophecy?

Ceridwen:
For the same reason he set store by the number seven.  He is 
superstitious that way.

In your (Q18) paragraph, you say, "The tools Harry possesses to fight 
with Lord Voldemort have been partially bestowed on him by Lord 
Voldemort himself."  I hadn't thought of Lily's blood protection 
sacrifice as something LV had bestowed on Harry before, but it just 
leaped out of the paragraph when I read it.

Thanks for an interesting discussion!

Ceridwen.