witches of the world (was: Lavender vs Hermione)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 160420

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > You know, another part of this may well be the "enemy of my      
> > enemy" thing, too.  I really dislike Molly.  And Narcissa is    
> > sort of the anti-Molly.  In a situation that would have had     
> > Molly crying in a heap on her kitchen floor, Narcissa put on her 
> > kickiest witch-boots and headed off to rescue her son.
> > <snip>

> >>Hickengruendler:
> Funny, because if I remember correctly, the very thing Narcissa   
> did was "crying on the floor". Granted, it was Snape's floor, but 
> still. ;-)
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Hee! True. <g> However Narcissa did come up with a plan and execute 
it.  And it was a dangerous plan, too.  Recognizing that she wasn't 
going to be in a position to help Draco, she gathered the courage to 
go to someone who *might* have been able to help, managed to get him 
to say he'd help, and even got him to commit himself to helping.  
All in complete defiance of Voldemort.  Which takes some guts, IMO.

> >>Hickengruendler:
> But instead of any difference between her and Molly, what always   
> struck me about this scene is how "similar" they were portrayed,   
> Molly in the Boggart chapter and Narcissa in "SPinner's End". Both 
> were desperate for their children and broke down of it. Both had a 
> very good reason for their reaction, even though with Molly it was 
> more a general fear after Voldie's return, while with Narcissa a  
> concrete was the reason. And both were in the end reassured by    
> someone they consider a friend, Lupin and Snape, that the friend   
> would care for their children. 
> Therefore if anything, I see Narcissa as an echo of Molly, and far 
> from being the Anti Molly, except possibly in looks.  

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, I grant that both scenes showed that each woman loves their 
child(ren).  But Molly was dealing with a mere possibility and fell 
apart.  Narcissa had to face up to, and deal with, that fear 
becoming real.

However... One thing that isn't fair is that we've not seen Molly 
dealing with a child in actual danger.  She's not been given an 
opportunity to show how she'd handle an honest to goodness crisis.  
In many ways Molly is dealing with the more stressful *waiting* for 
the crisis to come.

So while Narcissa has had a chance to show her courage, poor Molly 
is left at home clutching her clock.  And I won't say that Narcissa 
would handle the clock better, or that Molly would deal with an 
actual crisis worse.  (Or, well, I guess I have, but I recognize 
that I'm not being fair when I do so. <g>)

That Narcissa has had her trial gives me something to like in her.  
That Molly has not... well, I'm left without a reason.  So I guess 
in this case it's really apples and oranges.  It's not fair for me 
to judge Molly until she's had her day.  (And there are plenty of 
other reasons for me to dislike Molly. <eg>)

> >>Tesha:
> She read a book that was in the "Banned Area" She took some        
> material from a teacher's private stock.

Betsy Hp:
Ah, but see you're already watering down.  Hermione *stole* supplies 
from Snape's stock.  Supplies that might be monitered for a reason.  
Who knows their expense or their volitility.

You might argue that it was for a good cause, and I might even 
agree.  But Hermione did steal.

> >>Tesha:
> She made and made available a spiked treat.

Betsy Hp:
Right.  She caused both Crabbe and Goyle to be unconsious for a 
certain length of time.  Again, her ends might have been worth it, 
but she still caused harm to two fellow students.  (By encouraging 
Harry and Ron to cause a distraction in Potions, Hermione also took 
part in physically hurting members of her Potions class.)

> >>Tesha:
> <snip>
> There was no violence, there was no physical harm (except to      
> herself) - and she is just a child - I think that's pretty        
> remarkable.

Betsy Hp:
Again, you're watering down.  Hermione did cause physical harm.  You 
knock someone out, you've harmed them.

Yes, her plan *was* remarkable.  But I think it's important to at 
least acknowledge that she did some wrong things to implement the 
plan.  Especially since Hermione seems to be heading down a slippery 
slope of ends making all of her means right and good.

> >>Magpie:
> > She is a bit better than the murderous sociopath advocating     
> > genocide.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Marietta was wrong. Hermione was horrifying.

> >>Tesha:
> (This is rather of like hearing my husband's ex list off all the
> horrible things he's ever done in his life to prove he's worthy of 
> her distain - when in fact he's the sweetest man I've ever met -   
> we're going to just have to agree to disagree)

Betsy Hp:
I think Magpie was more pointing out that saying "it's better than 
what Voldemort would have done" isn't the best way to argue that 
someone's choice is ethically sound. 

And I'm saying that when you start branding other people on the 
face, you're slipping into a fairly horrifying place.  At least, IMO.

I don't think Hermione is the sweetest character I've ever met.  I 
don't even think she's the sweetest character in Potterverse.  (I 
think Neville more fits that bill.) And I do refuse to discount 
Hermione's wrongs in order to try and shoe-horn her in to "sweet 
character" status.  Or to try and force myself to like her.

Betsy Hp