Dumbledore and Polyjuice

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 160491

Note to List Elves and those who read the posts on the lists: this is
a slightly revised repost. The original has been deleted.

Snape's Witch wrote:
> > If Snape is a polyjuiced Dumbledore then who is the man with
> > Harry in Chapters 3 and 4? Surely not Snape? No, no, no.
>
Becca wrote:
> I don't have the book in front of me right now, so I can't speak to
> chapters 3 and 4 specifically, but I will say that something that
> struck me overwhelmingly in HBP was Dumbledore's newfound tendency
to gloat. It was subtle, in most respects, but that - more than
anything else (the Unbreakable Vow, the stuff on the Astronomy tower)
- made me suspicious of a Polyjuice situation right away. Maybe
tomorrow I'll have a minute to dig out the book and give some canon
examples of Dumbledore's oddly Snape-like self aggrandizement, or
maybe some kind soul who noticed the same thing and has a few minutes
tonight will do it for me?

Carol responds:
"Snape-like self-aggrandizement"? When does Snape praise himself or
even gloat? The closest I can think of is "How I hoped that I would be
the one to catch you," which is more a desire for vengeance than an
ego trip, or "I, the Half-Blood Prince" in HBP, when he needs to prove
to Harry, and quickly, that he knows where Harry got those spells and
potion hints and that they're his. He certainly doesn't gloat on the
tower, and Dumbledore's praise is all of himself, not of Snape, who
only gets credited with "timely action" in saving him, in contrast
with DD's own prodigious intellect, or whatever the expression was.

As I said in an earlier post, if Snape isn't Snape in "Spinner's End,"
then Snape isn't responsible for risking his own life as a double
agent and Dumbledore has put Snape in a terrible position. Either
that, or he's bound himself to commit suicide, which does not explain
why he wants Snape to kill him.

No, I think that "Spinner's End" takes place almost simultaneously
with the other three opening chapters and that when Slughorn accepts
the Potions position, Snape effectively becomes the DADA teacher--and
the DADA curse falls into place. That would explain why Narcissa
thought of the Unbreakable Vow just at that point and added the third
provision without warning him. He was trapped by the DADA curse as
much as by the vow, and however he and Dumbledore tried to avoid any
circumstance that would trigger it, they were both doomed.

Having Dumbledore in Snape's place, and behaving in such a Snapelike
way that he fools both Narcissa and Bellatrix, takes away from Snape
as a character (at last we get to see him as he appears to the DEs!)
and diminishes his tragedy. It also makes Dumbledore solely
responsible not only for his own death but for Snape's terrible
predicament at the end of the book (having to go off with the DEs at
the end of the book, the most wanted man next to Voldemort in the WW,
all because Dumbledore made a UV in his name). I think that "Severus,
please!" means "Severus, please kill me and keep the Vow!" which would
make no sense if DD himself had made the UV and Snape was in no danger
of dying, and would be tantamount to a murder/suicide if Snape refused
to obey him and they both died (along with Draco and Harry).

I agree that Dumbledore praises himself rather frequently in the book,
but I don't think that's out of character. And I think that any other
changes in his character result from his knowledge that time is
running out and he must teach Harry as much about Horcruxes as
possible, and locate at least one Horcrux, before Draco finishes his
task and triggers the UV in combination with the DADA curse.

In response to Nate's ingenious arguments regarding Polyjuice: If
Dumbledore were really Snape, he'd be unable to reveal the address of
the HQ of the Order of the Phoenix. As the real Snape says in
"Spinner's End," in his characteristically Snapish way, "I am not the
Secret-Keeper. I cannot speak the name of the place. You understand
how the enchantment works, I think?" (HBP Am. ed. 30). (As you see,
Nate, I agree that the references to the time are important, indeed
crucial, but not with relation to Polyjuice. What's important, IMO, is
that these chapters occur simultaneously, and the DADA curse strikes
just as Slughorn accepts the Potions Master position.)

Carol, betting that Snape is Snape and Dumbledore Dumbledore
throughout the book and that the first four chapters occur almost
simultaneously on the same Friday night two weeks into the summer holiday