Views of Hermione / Cruelty and Heroism

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 160506

 
Carol:
<SNIP> 
> I'll say it again more clearly. Wouldn't HRH--and most readers--be 
up
> in arms against Draco and his friends if they used Polyjuice to
> infiltrate the *Gryffindor* common room? Yet that's exactly what 
Harry
> and Ron did (and Hermione would have done if it weren't for the cat
> fur problem) to the Slytherins. Why is it okay for the Gryffindors 
to
> do what would be considered reprehensible and unforgiveable if the
> Slytherins did it? Would you want "the enemy" in your common room,
> which is supposed to be for your Housemates alone? 
> 
> Sounds like a double standard to me.
> 
> Carol, who thinks that if the tables were turned and Polyjuiced 
Draco
> had shown up in Gryffindor tower even in second year, readers would 
be
> condemning him to a fate worse than Marietta's
>


Alla:

So, what I hear you saying is that trying to find the murderer of 
muggle-borns is not just rule breaking, but also reprehensible and 
unforgivable?

In any event, I am not sure I understand where the double standard 
is? 

I already mentioned in passing upthread, but I say it again - **No** 
if Draco was suspecting that Harry and his friends were trying to 
kill him and his friends, I would have no problems with Draco 
mimiking this particular action,**none**.

So, where is the double standard?

Now, of course if Draco wanted to do so just for fun of it, I would 
be very annoyed, but Trio was investigating, so again, I am perfectly 
Okay with it, no matter who would have done it - **for the good 
reason** and murder investigation sure counts to me as such.

To be clear though - I absolutely **do** think that Draco's hate 
speeches work toward diminishing his right to privacy, just as in 
HBP , where they nicely allevated to murder attempts, his right to 
privacy becomes, well, barely existant IMO.

It is just if Draco was doing that kind of thing ( what Trio did in 
CoS) to save people, I would have been absolutely Okay with it. 
Believe it not, I would have been.

> Carol responds:
> <SNIP>
> It is not Hermione's right or responsibility to "disfigure a horrid
> sneak," who, AFWK, thought she was doing the right thing. <BIG 
SNIP>If Marietta dis wrong, let Dumbledore
> or her Head of House (Flitwick) punish her, not a fellow student. A
> deterrent is one thing; an after-the-fact punishment is another.
><SNIP>


Alla:

Maybe not in RL, but IMO surely in Potterverse it is right for kids 
to take matters in their own hands, simply because adults do not.

Dumbledore punishing a student? When did he ever? He would rather 
stay back and enjoy how would events unfold IMO.

If kids would stay back and wait for adults to help them, a lot of 
things would not have get done in Potterverse, IMO.

For example, Ginny would have be dead, had Ron and Harry stayed away, 
Rita Skeeter, well Rita Skeeter would still publish lies. Dolores 
Umbridge would have use Crucio on Harry, etc,etc, etc.

I think that within the realms of Potterverse it **was** Hermione's 
right to defend DA. Sure, a bit of better execution would have been 
good, but besides that, I think she certainly had a right to do what 
she did, if no other reason than no one else did.  

> Betsy Hp:
>> Hermione decided to place her classmates under a jinx.  It was a 
> cruel and underhanded thing to do, no matter who the jinx sprang 
> on.  (Harry is very lucky he's not walking around with "SNEAK" 
> written across his face, actually.  He came very close to spilling 
> the beans to Fudge, himself.)
> 
> IMO, there are things people who'd like to be considered civilized 
> should not do.  Hermione crossed the line.  

Alla:

Let me be sure I understand - civilised people should **not** defend 
their friends from potential betrayal? That is where Hermione crossed 
the line?

I mean it is one thing if you are saying that Hermione crossed the 
line with the punishment, but did she cross the line with her 
intentions?

Oh, and yes Harry is lucky. Thanks to Hermione he was not expelled by 
Umbridge, thanks to Hermione he was not Crucioed by Umbridge.

For what Hermione did for him, I think he should thank her more than 
once.

Now, granted she involved him in DADA without asking him first and 
for that he should slap her, but DADA meetings were the only place 
AFAIK where Harry enjoyed doing something in OOP, so Hermione indeed 
turned out to know better IMO.

> Betsy Hp:
> Cruelty and barbarism doesn't guarantee competence.  Hermione was a 
> total ass with the DADA.  She handled it badly from beginning to 
> end, and it's *because* of Hermione that Dumbledore ended up 
fleeing 
> from Hogwarts.

Alla:

Okay, do you mind clarifying now? How is that Hermione's fault? If 
Marietta did not betray them, there would be no need for DD to enter 
in confrontation IMO.

Sorry, in my opinion that is another consequence of Marietta betrayal 
and Hermione has nothing to do with it. IMO of course.



JMO,

Alla