Harry's ...perform occlumency/Views of Hermione/Wizards... racists
Steve
bboyminn at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 30 00:46:36 UTC 2006
No: HPFGUIDX 160620
--- "Magpie" <belviso at ...> wrote:
>
> bboyminn:
> >
> > I don't think the key point is so much that Harry
> > couldn't learn Occlumency, but more that he didn't.
> > ... Several times in the Occlumency classes Harry
> > did very effectively block Snape's access to his
> > thoughts. ...
>
> Magpie:
> I believe (Harry) was able to shove Snape's own
> Legilimency charm back with shield charms, but never
> really did Occlumency, which is cloaking his own mind
> and separting himself from his emotions. ...
>
> Snape's methods certainly didn't help but I think most
> of Harry's trouble with Occlumency comes from himself
> and not just the teacher. ...
bboyminn:
Oh, on your last point above, I agree. Harry certainly
carries part of the blame for the Lessons. I think he
was just as curious as anyone to see what interesting
memories would come up in the Occlumency lessons. However,
when a memory comes along that Harry truly doesn't want
Snape to see, he is able to cut off Snape's vision. True
he doesn't necessarily do it by the truest application of
pure Occlumency, but he does it, and it shows he has an
awareness and a skill, similar to his Imperius resisting
skill, that implies he has some aptitude for this.
Keep in mind, I'm not saying Harry is every going to be
and expert at this, in fact, he will probably hardly be
more that passable, BUT, and this is a big but (I love
saying that), he is better than we have so far been lead
to believe.
Note that in the beginning of the lessons, Harry does
specifically ask Snape some critical questions, and Snape
does reply in a way that should have made Harry aware of
the true danger, but it was never mentioned again, and I
ask anyone who has kids or works with kids, if they have
ever gotten the /point/ from a single mention. This was
the most critical aspect of the whole lesson, and
logically it would have been emphasized many times but
for Snape's arrogance and Dumbledore's insistance that
people only get the minimum necessary information.
I think Snape, Dumbledore, AND HARRY all share a degree
of the blame, and didn't mean to imply by my post that
Harry bore no responsibility.
I also reaffirm my belief that a patient, more
communicative, and more systematic teacher would have
produced better results. Again, I point out that you
must learn to walk before you learn to run.
>
> Alla:
>
> I believe the parallel towards racism in the books goes
> mainly towards Muggleborns though. ...
>
> Magpie:
> ...the parallels in the book are ...about Muggleborns,
> not Muggles. I'm just saying I think wynnleaf calls it
> something other than racism because Pureblood/
> Muggleborn doesn't seem like a direct parallel, though
> the mindset is the same. ...
>
bboyminn:
I think the term 'racism' in a broad and general context
is inappropriate, but in another sense it is not
necessarily racial racism, but social and self-preceived
superiority racism.
One example of Muggle-born 'racism' is the way the
European aristocrats look down on the common man. I mean
Britain still has 'The House of Lords', as if being a
'lord' somehow makes you more capable of deciding the
fate of a country than someone else. So, in a sense,
pure wizards are 'lords' and muggle-borns are just
common men, inexperience, and of such poor skill as to
not being capable of 'deciding the fate of a country'.
Muggle racism, is probably closer to true racism. As an
example, it seems that (highly generalized) the Arabs
hate the Jews, but they are the same race, just a
different culture. Yet Arab (and others) hatred of Jews
is considered racism even though race is not the true
issue. So, I see the Wizard's view of pure muggles as
somewhat closer to a very benevolent version of the
British original view towards Blacks and Indians
(from India). They viewed them as a simple people of
no real talent who were able to take care of the basic
necessities of life, but were of no real or worthwhile
intellect. Sad but true, it is the classic 'imperial'
attitude.
> eggplant:
> > Don't be silly, without Hermione's curse that piece
> > of filth called Marietta would have spilled the beans
> > in Umbridge's office, ....
>
> Magpie:
> Err...no, I don't think in the real world ... she would
> have been shot at all. ...
>
> eggplant:
> > Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of revisionism, but
> > this Marietta is a hero and Hermione is a villain
> > business just won't fly.
>
> Magpie:
> You certainly are a fan of revisionism if what you're
> getting from this discussion is Marietta=hero and
> Hermione=a villain.
>
> -m
>
bboyminn:
Once again I will point out that Merietta has ZITS, true
they are arranged a little more distinctly than the
average teenage ZITS but they are none the less 'zits'.
She was NOT mercilessly beat in the face with an Ugly
Stick.
As to the long term nature of those Zits, we have yet to
see the long term nature, so Marietta hasn't been 'scarred'
for life, at least not yet. Until we have the final book,
I don't think we can condemn Hermione for what she did.
I'm sure if she had been the evil vindictive shrew some
are making her out to be, she could have done far far far
worse than 'zits'.
As to the 'illegal' nature of the DA Club, again I plea
for perspective. Illegal Law are in and of themselves
'illegal', and the minute Dumbledore triumphed those
corrupt laws were thrown out. It is not wrong to fight
against corrupt governments and their corrupt laws, and
while we are on the subject, this was an Educational
Decree which I hardly think is a capital crime. Though
the distinction between civil and criminal law seems
somewhat uncertain at best. None the less, this is a
clear case of a corrupt government making corrupt laws
for clearly illegal purposes that put the people they
ruled over second and their own self-interests first.
I think it is every citizens duty to stand up at all
cost against corruption and gross neglegence commited
by government. I have to believe that as much as
Marietta saw the letter of the law, and as reluctant
as she was to take part in defying it, that she saw
with equal clarity that those laws were in themselves
corrupt. The side of Right trumps the side of law
every time.
So, my central points is to not condemn Hermione until
she has had a chance to redeem herself. The 'spots' may
fade on their own, or Marietta may find a solution for
them, or Hermione may take pity now that it is crystal
clear that Voldemort is back and she may remove Marietta's
spots. This is afteral the time to join together for a
common cause and the common good. Past petty afronts may
be set aside when much great and far more important tasks
lie ahead.
Give the poor girl a chance.
STeve/bboyminn
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