Was Snape asleep? (was Re: What Came First: Task or Cabinet?...

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 157821

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Sydney" <sydpad at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> colebiancardi: 
> 
>  I would think that putting a spell on Snape would
> > defeat the whole purpose of Dumbledore's statement of "I trust Severus
> > Snape completely". 
> 
> 
> Sydney:
> 
> I guess I'd say, Dumbledore trusts Severus completely, except on the
> agonizingly painful choice of having to kill Dumbledore.  
> 
> That Dumbledore didn't think Snape would do it, to me is clear in his
> "pleading" tone on the tower.  I mean, you don't *plead* with someone
> if you're confident what course of action they'll take.  I trust my
> best friend completely but if they had to kill me for some reason (I
> don't know, if the Fate of Mankind depended on it), that's the one
> point at which I'd feel I'd have to plead with them, because, I mean,
> I hope she really wouldn't want to do it. 
> If Dumbledore was *sure* of what Snape was going to do, he wouldn't be
> saying "Severus..." the moment Snape shows up, in the pleading tone
> that Harry found so very shocking.  He follows it up with "Severus...
> please..." just to drive the point home.  I'd say, from the pleading
> tone, that Dumbledore had excellent reason to believe that Snape was
> going to commit Suicide-by-Vow but hoped that he would carry through
> with the plan.

colebiancardi:  Yes, I am sure that DDM!Snape(whose camp I have firmly
put up my tent years ago) would be conflicted about killing his
mentor, his leader.  I think DD's pleading was to remind Snape of the
goals in this war.  Harry even balked with the force feeding of the
liquid and DD had to remind him "Your word, Harry".  So, I believe DD
was telling Snape about "his word" of loyality to the cause.  Bot that
he wasn't "sure" of Snape's loyalities, but that he needed Snape to
act and act now.  I am not in the Snape-is-suicidal camp at all.  I
think Snape wants to live very much, not die.  I haven't seen anything
in the books to point that Snape is suicidal at all.  

> 
> 
> Either with Evil!Snape or Good!Snape, you run into a contradiction
> between the 'complete trust' and the pleading.  I haven't heard a
> convicing explanation from the Evil!Snapers on this, but as a
> Good!Snaper it makes sense to me that Dumbledore is having to plead
> with Snape to follow through with their agreement and kill him.
> 

colebiancardi:  I don't have any contradictions about the complete
trust and the pleading.  Snape had to do what he had to do - DD was
pleading with him because DD knew this was very hard for Snape.  Not
that Snape wouldn't do it in the end.


>  but it does strike me as very strange that
> Dumbledore would say go and *wake* Severus on a night like that.
> 


colebiancardi:  Has anyone ever thought that Snape didn't know that DD
& Harry would be out of the castle that evening?  Also, I think that
DD had TO PUSH Harry to get Snape, as Harry mentioned Madam Pomfrey a
couple of times .  And DD only mentioned the wake bit once; other
times he states "It is...Professor Snape whom I need...", "Severus,"
said Dumbledore clearly.  "I need Severus" and then we get the "go and
wake Severus" comment.  

But it would not be unusual that late at night that Snape would be
sleeping.  I didn't read too much into it - DD thought that Snape
would be sleeping & Snape was not.

so what?

colebiancardi.