[HPforGrownups] Re: Harry as a Horcrux theory

[Kathryn Jones]

No: HPFGUIDX 157830

justcarol67 wrote:

> Carol responds:
But would Dumbledore have taken Harry to
> Madam Pomfrey? Given the next step in the process you outline (Snape
> and his Dark Mark), wouldn't DD have had his young Dark Arts expert
> examine Baby!Harry? ("Professor Snape knows a lot more about the Dark
> Arts than Madam Pomfrey, Harry," HBP, quoted from memory). Not only
> would Snape know what to look for, he'd be right there on the scene,
> having already showed up to tell DD about the fading Dark Mark. And
> we'd have an ironclad reason for DD to trust snape. they'd have been
> working together to save Harry and figure out how to fight Voldemort
> from the beginning.

   Kj writes:

      We can safely agree to disagree on the horcrux theory. I have been 
wrong before and will be again.:-) The last book will sort everything 
out. I don't think that DD would have necessarily relied on Snape's 
abilities in the Dark Arts at that point in time as he would have been 
too young to know all that much. I don't know if DD even confided his 
suspicions to Snape at that time, or if Snape knew enough to suspect all 
on his own. I am thinking that DD would have taken Harry to Pomfrey for 
medical treatment, but not necessarily to confirm whether or not Harry 
had an addition. It would be easy for Hagrid to pick him up there and 
take him to Dursleys. It's just a possibility, and not necessarily 
important to the plot.

> Carol responds:
  I think they've been
> working together all along. (Needless to say, I also believe in
> DDM!Snape. But you know that already.)

  KJ writes:

     I am also firmly in the DDM! Snape camp.

> KJ:
>>      We also don't know if Voldemort has any idea what might be
> causing the connection between himself and Harry. We do know from HBP
> that he occludes against Harry to prevent him knowing what is being
> plotted. I suspect that Snape was kept out of the loop because of his
> contact with Dumbledore. If Voldemort is convinced that Snape is not
> an Occlumens, he would not want to risk Dumbledore discovering the
> plan in Snape's mind. 
> 
> Carol responds:
> I'm not quite sure what you mean here. However, I don't think that
> Voldemort know Snape is an Occlumens who's so good at it that he can
> lie without being detected. Otherwise, LV would never say anything in
> front of Snape or believe anything he says. And it would be suicide,
> IMO, for DDM!Snape to tell Voldemort that he was giving Harry
> Occlumency lessons because that would give away Snape's great secret.
> I'm not talking about the ordinary, easily detectable Occlumency that
> even Draco can do. I'm talking about snape as "superb Occlumens" who
> can conceal memories and emotions without being detected.

   KJ writes:

     Sorry, I wasn't clear here. I'm sure that Voldemort has no idea 
that Snape is an Occlumens. That seemed to be what was making Snape so 
nervous when DD insisted that Harry be taught Occlumency. That always 
bothered me that DD set Snape that task knowing full well that Harry was 
an open conduit to Voldemort. I think it is also suggestive that DD told 
Harry that he thought it was too dangerous to open Harry's mind further 
while in DD's presence. So this tells us that the Occlumency lessons did 
open Harry's mind to further attack. I wonder what DD meant by it being 
too dangerous for him to be in Harry's presence. What danger? For which 
of them, Harry or Dumbledore would it have been dangerous?  What might 
have happened?


> Carol responds:
> I take it that the last suggestion is a joke. the third seems too
> inconclusive but at least consistent with DDM!Snape. But I don't see
> how you can reconcile the first two with DDM!Snape unless Snape is
> both DDM! and evil.

   KJ writes:

      I don't have any more of a problem with Snape continuing to do 
things that he would REALLY rather not do, in the interest of ending the 
threat to the wizarding world. You are able to reconcile the murder of 
Dumbledore with DDM! Snape, as am I. So either of the first two 
alternatives seem reasonable to me and explain why it was so necessary 
in DD's mind that Snape be in a position close to Voldemort. I don't 
believe that DD sacrificed himself only for Draco. I think these 
scenarios less likely because Snape would take the hero's place instead 
of Harry. I think the real ending will come down to Harry choosing to 
make a choice. I won't even go into what choice that might be because it 
just irritates you. As far as ending 3 is concerned, you and I have both 
torn our hair out over unsatisfactory, and ambiguous endings. There is 
nothing to say that JKR won't do it to us.  The fourth ending is, yes, a 
joke. However, being a Capricorn, and in the interests of sheer 
practicality, if I were the PM that's what I would do. Capricorns 
possibly do not make the best writers.:-)

KJ