Cabinet FIRST!

[ornadv]

No: HPFGUIDX 158041

>Magpie:
>I don't understand what you need here. Bellatrix just described
>this as a duty, something required of him, not something he
>demanded. Draco's never made a secret of his desire to join the
>DEs. His family is already completely bound up in the
>organization. Seems to me he's right there for Voldemort to tap.

Orna:
You may be right. But if you ask what I need – I need a clear act to 
mark the transition from talking how much you like to be DE to 
committing yourself. The transition includes presumably getting the 
mark branded on your arm. But I would think it should include some 
act of your choice, of initiation as well. Only after this, anybody 
can speak of what your duty is. You don't have any duty to an 
organization you haven't joined.  The way you tell it, here is 
Voldemort, knows Draco supports DE (and wants to take a revenge on 
Lucius), and sends a note to Draco – I have a job for you?  Could 
be, since as you say Draco and his whole family are completely there 
already. I don't think there is anything in canon contradicting the 
possibility that Draco did some more definite step, and the more 
this thread goes on, I find myself wanting JKR to give us the 
picture of it. (Again – personal taste). . Actually we don't really 
know how any of the DEs really joined the Des, so either it will 
stay like this, or it will be revealed a bit more in book 7 

>Magpie:
>Easy. He doesn't. And I think Dumbledore is stressing that in the
>last scene. His moment of choice comes at the end, at the place the
>book spends all those pages getting to. That's the big moment of
>the whole story, imo, where the possibility of choice becomes a
>reality to him. Before that it's been all bad faith.

Orna:
That's a possible reading – which I can accept – since it leaves the 
burden of his moral choices, only where they actually take place. I 
haven't got any problem with this. 

>Magpie:
>Before that it's been all bad faith.

Orna:
I would hardly call two murder attempts just "bad faith", even if 
they were indirect and sloppy from the POV of the target they were 
meant for. He was lucky nobody was hurt – so his way towards making 
again perhaps another choice when DD talks with him - stayed open. 

Magpie
<snip>His story may echo Regulus' and Snape's in some ways,
>but he's not a carbon copy of either of them. One of the
>differences JKR is capitalizing on is the generational one.

Orna:
I liked your thoughts about the generation-issue, the freedom of the 
young generation to choose the path, and mistakes the older 
generation seems to do there. It came to me, that in CoS Lucius 
restrained Draco from getting more involved. He might have done it 
of course just because it would direct attention to him. But there 
might be also some issue of some of the old generation being a bit 
protective or ambivalent of the younger one – since they did go the 
whole DE-way, even though they are committed and loyal – they know 
somewhere what it really means, what tortures are entangled with it. 
And perhaps Lucius didn't totally want his only son really-really to 
be there. He wouldn't say anything like this (perhaps not even to 
himself), but he might in various ways not really and wholly 
indoctrinated Draco towards it, even if explicitly never said 
anything like that. Narcissa certainly finds herself totally out of 
those boundaries – when she goes to Snape (defying Voldemort's 
secrecy-order), when she dares nearly say that even Voldemort hasn't 
been able to "do it". And of course – she doesn't care about 
anything anymore – as long as Draco stays alive – quite a sane and 
human choice, but basically putting her personal priorities above 
Voldemort's. This are all signs of critical thoughts, which might 
signify that some of the Des (not Bellatrix) have "second thoughts" 
on their path –on different levels of consciousness, activity etc. I 
think that Draco joining the Des when Lucius isn't there anymore 
shows not only his identification with him, but perhaps also some 
rebel towards him, even if it doesn't look at first like it.  

Orna