Harry as Murderer?

[fazkleto]

No: HPFGUIDX 158236

Random832 writes:
> > Most theories around unusual interpretations in the
> > wording center around there being a third party called "the other"
> > (I've heard it as Pettigrew - which adds a couple possible new
> > meanings to "the hand of the other" as well.) Any thoughts?

parisfan writes:
> I have always had the idea if Harry didn't kill Lord V
> than someone else would. pref. Pettigrew or Neville. I
> kinda like to see it be one of those out of the blue
> situations you wouldn't expect.


Fazkleto:
Here's a summary of several possible interpretations (it's kind of long, sorry), line for line, of Trelawney's 1979 prophecy, overheard by both Dumbledore and Snape.

1. "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches..."
*Approaches means 'is coming'.
*It could be taken to mean Harry's birth (especially considering the
next line about 'born as the seventh month dies', as both Harry and
Neville were born on the 31st July)
*Or, and this is the out-there point, it could mean that the person
is approaching at present, i.e. Snape is standing on the other side
of the door, or there is a person approaching to throw Snape out, or
Dumbledore, who is in the same room as Trelawney (Dumbledore was
seemingly the Dark Lord's equal before he got killed off).

2. "Born to those who have thrice defied him,"
Meaning the son/daughter of people who have done something against
(defied) the Dark Lord three times. It has not yet been established
how James/Lily or the Longbottoms managed to defy the Dark Lord
three times.

3. "Born as the seventh month dies..."
Canon says this means someone born at the end of the seventh month
(ie July). As I've previously said, Neville Longbottom and Harry Potter were born on the 31st of July.  Snape was born in January (hp-lexicon info), so that seemly disproves the theory that he, as the one approaching the door, has the power to vanquish the Dark Lord.

4. "And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal,"
Harry was marked by Voldemort (ie his scar) and marked to die (if
you think of it like Voldemort having a list of 'people who have to
die').  Harry is also very similar to Voldemort (does this imply 'equality'?)
*colouring (hair, eyes)
*halfblooded
*has the same wand core

When Voldemort killed the Potters and attempted to kill Harry, he
made Harry more of his equal by:
*orphaning Harry
*transferring to him some powers, including Parseltongue (according
to Dumbledore)

Neville doesn't seem to be marked in any way by the Dark Lord,
unless this means being on 'Voldemort's hit-list' or that he
becomes a Death Eater (something that seems very unlikely).

Furthermore, while Death Eaters are marked by Voldemort, I would
hazard a guess that Voldemort does not see them as his equals
(slaves, more like).

Ginny Weasley was at one point possessed by the Dark Lord. Does this
imply that she was made his equal in someway (ie like as in becoming
a horcrux?)

As previously said, Dumbledore was thought to be the Dark Lord's
equal. He was 'marked' by destroying the Ring Horcrux.

5. "but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ..."
The equal has powers that the Dark Lord doesn't know about.
*Dumbledore assumes this is 'love,' something that Voldemort never
understood (very sociopathic).
*Could also have something to do with Harry's mother's sacrifice, or
with the powers transferred to Harry by Voldemort's killing curse
(ie Voldemort doesn't know that he's done it).

6. "And either must die at the hand of the other"
"Either" - implying either the equal or the Dark Lord.
"Must die" - one of them has to die
"Hand of the other"
*the hand of the other person (ie either Harry has to kill the Dark
Lord or vice versa)
*Or, "the other" could imply a third person who can kill either the
equal or the Dark Lord (perhaps after Harry gets rid of the
horcruxes - however, it has been revealed that other people aside
from Harry can destroy the horcruxes, as Dumbledore has managed to,
and RAB was planning to)?

In which case, who is the third person?
*Neville, who is also born on the 31st of July (though JKR has
disproved the theory that Neville and Harry have to kill each other
to kill the Dark Lord on her website, she hasn't disproved the
theory that Neville has to kill the Dark Lord).
*someone else, Ginny Weasley (birthdate August 11), Peter Pettigrew,
Dumbledore, RAB? (the latter three's birthdates aren't listed on HP-
lexicon)

7. "for neither can live while the other survives ..." means:
a. "Neither the equal nor the Dark Lord can live while the other one
is alive (survives)" - implies that their lives are in someway
interwoven together.
*for example, if one was the horcrux of the other.
*either Harry is the Dark Lord's accidental horcrux (implying that
he would have to destroy part of himself to destroy Voldemort)
*or, that Lily's sacrifice somehow rendered Voldemort's body a
horcrux for part of Harry's soul? that would explain the mind link
that the two have, just like that the Dark Lord seems to have with
the snake Nagini (whom Dumbledore believed to be one of Voldemort's
horcruxes).

b. "Neither the equal nor the Dark Lord can live if the other (a
third person) is alive."
*for example, if the third person were one of the Dark Lord's
horcruxes.

Who could be a horcrux?
*Ginny Weasley. We know for a fact that the Dark Lord has been in
her head. This would probably mean that Harry didn't destroy the
Diary horcrux and that instead it was transferred to Ginny. But one
would have to wonder why, if this were the case, Ginny hasn't tried
to kill or lure Harry away since, or shown any other signs of being
possessed. She does, however, owe Harry a life debt for saving her
life in CoS (something that will probably come into play in the next
book).
*Peter Pettigrew. Voldemort gave him a replacement hand. This hand
may in fact be a horcrux, rather than Nagini. This would tie in with
the 'either must die at the hand of the other' part of the prophecy.
Peter also owes Harry a life debt. Killing Voldemort, or at least
killing the final horcrux (his hand), would fufill that debt, and
keep Harry alive.
*Neville Longbottom. If Neville were a horcrux, it may explain why
the Lestranges and Crouch Jnr. were so eager to go after the
Longbottoms, even after the Dark Lord had seemingly died. However,
when did Neville and the Dark Lord come in contact in order to
transfer a part of the Dark Lord's soul?

c. "Neither the equal nor the Dark Lord can get on with their life
(can live), while the other one survives."
As long as Voldemort is alive, he'll always have a hold over Harry's
life (because Harry has to kill him), and vice versa.

8. "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as
the seventh month dies... "
*Seemingly there to reiterate the point that a person who can kill
the Dark Lord will be born on July 31st.
*Or it could mean that there are two people who can vanquish the
Dark Lord (the equal and the other). The equal is the son of the
thrice-defying parents, born on the 31st of July, and the other is
someone else born at the end of July (ie Neville).

So what does it all mean?  Are there three people mentioned in the prophecy? My money is on 'the other' being Peter or Neville, and having something to do with horcruxes.

Fazkleto