Identifying with Muggles in Potterverse WAS: Re: DD at th...

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 158273

> >>Magpie:
> <snip>
> I just think of Hogwarts as being a joke on school on a child's   
> level and don't think JKR has fleshed out that part of her world. 
> I find that easier to believe, actually, than the idea there's a   
> lot of stuff going on that we just never see in this small world.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I think JKR is being a lot more...  would allegorical be the 
word?... with the WW than an actual world builder.  It's like she 
wanted to set up this place that echoes the real world, but is basic 
enough and divided enough that she can use it to tell her story.  
One which I think will have a rather strong moral.

So there are these gaps, and they're just there.  With music, for 
example, IIRC JKR was asked about WW's musical culture and she 
pretty much dismissed the question with "I never really thought 
about it, and I don't see a reason *to* think about it."  Not 
because she dislikes music but because it's not important to the 
story she's telling so she's not going to take the time with to  
figure out how the WW's musical tastes might have evolved, etc.

A true world builder would, I think, either have an answer to that 
question, or know their world so well that they could figure out the 
answer fairly easily. 

Which is a long way of saying that I agree with Magpie. <g>  I don't 
think the WW is a complete culture.  JKR didn't design it to be.

*However* I can say that what JKR has designed seems *very* 
uninviting to me.  It's a dark and backwards place, IMO. I think 
it's fair to make a call on that (form an opinion) because JKR has 
purposefully (I think) *not* put any culture or ethical awareness or 
sound legal policy into the WW.  There's a lack of numinous, as 
houhnhnm points out.  I can only think JKR did that for a purpose. 

> >>Phoenixgod: (way back in post 158049)
> <snip>
> Letting the inner snob out a little :) 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I wouldn't say I was being snobby.  I'm just pointing out that 
the WW is completely lacking in anything I consider essential to 
being civilized.  Ooh, hang on, did I just make your point? <g>

> >>Quick_Silver: 
> But doesn't that become Patronizing to their culture?
> I mean you speak of the contribution that "their" nation has made 
> to the world but they would argue that muggle England has made    
> many contributions to the muggle world. This seems like           
> a "cultural" minefield for me because it seem to me that you're   
> saying that Hogwarts should basically be teaching the wizards     
> something that will help them be assimilated into the muggle world.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'm coming to the conclusion that I am a bit of a Muggle snob.  But 
really, it's nearly impossible *not* to be.  I mean, the WW is so 
horribly lacking.  From what we've seen they're locked in the dark 
ages.  Literally.  Their finest educational institute is a trade 
school at best.  So yeah, they *should* figure out how to assimilate 
into the Muggle world.

If I were a Muggle parent of a magical child I'd be *horrified* at 
the dark world by child was being trained for.  And I'd be equally 
horrified that she was being ruined for my world.

Is that patronizing?  Well it's so darn hard not to be!  Mozart vs. 
the Weird Sisters?  It's not even a contest.  And in the end, it's 
the wizards that patronized first.  They should have picked a fight 
with a culture they could stand toe to toe with.  Like the giants or 
something.  I think wizards look pretty good compared to giants.

Betsy Hp