On Dumbledore's extralegal actions. WAS Re: Who is Harry's guardian?

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 158361

Random832 wrote: 
> > As I said before, regardless of whether 'godparent' is synonymous 
> with 'guardian-designee' in the WW, Sirius was both.
> 
Alla responded:
> 
> That is entirely possible, I am just not completely sure yet, that's 
> all. <snip>>
> ( To be clear, as I said, if Dumbledore somehow someway knew that 
> Sirius would be arrested and if **godfather** does not equal
guardian in a full sense, that means a different story to me)
> 

Carol notes:
Just to ease your mind on this one point, in the RW (I don't know
about the WW), being a godparent does *not* mean being a
"guardian-designee" (I like the term!).

Here's a quotation from http://www.egodparent.com/Godparenting.htm
that explains the concept:

"Christian Responsibilities of a Godparent

1. Pray for your godchild regularly
2. Set an example of Christian living
3. Help him/her to grow in the faith of God, Father, Son and Holy
Spirit, in which he was baptized
4. Give every encouragement to follow Christ and fight against evil
5. Help your godchild to look forward to confirmation."

You can click on the "Role of Godparents" link on that page to find
out a bit more. That short essay (from which it's not possible to cut
and paste) states specifically that a godparent is not a legal guardian.

Here is part of the Anglican baptismal service (I'm not familiar with
the Church of Scotland's service, but it's probably similar):

"When all have been presented the Celebrant [priest or minister] asks
the parents and godparents

Will you be responsible for seeing that the child you present is
brought up in the Christian faith and life?

Parents and Godparents

I will, with God's help.

Celebrant

Will you by your prayers and witness help this child to grow into the
full stature of Christ?

Parents and Godparents

I will, with God's help.

The the Celebrant asks the following questions of the candidates who
can speak for themselves, and of the parents and godparents who speak
on behalf of the infants and younger children
Question: Do you renounce Satan and all the spiritual forces of
wickedness that rebel against God?
Answer:	I renounce them.
Question: Do you renounce the evil powers of this world which corrupt
and destroy the creatures of God?
Answer:	I renounce them.
Question: Do you renounce all sinful desires that draw you from the
love of God?
Answer:	I renounce them.
Question: Do you turn to Jesus Christ and accept him as your Savior?
Answer:	I do.
Question: Do you put your whole trust in his grace and love?
Answer:	I do.
Question: Do you promise to follow and obey him as your Lord?
Answer:	I do.

Of course, these websites are talking about Christian godparents in
the RW. I don't know how godparenting works in the WW. Possibly a
godfather is supposed to set a good moral example (no Dark magic?) and
encourage the child to fight evil(?). I have trouble even
understanding the concept outside a Christian (or at least a
religious) context, myself.

I think, however, that regardless of the Potters' wishes in the
matter, making Sirius Black Harry's godfather would not automatically
have made him Harry's guardian. They'd have needed to state that wish
in their will or have him appointed by the Wizengamot, wouldn't they?
And I don't recall any reference to the Potters' will in the HP books.
Maybe they didn't make one. All I know is that a godparent is *not* a
legal guardian, and his duties are very different from those of a
guardian. In the RW, they're strictly religious (and moral).

Question for any estate lawyers on the list: In the RW, if parents
unwittingly appoint a criminal as a guardian for their child, or the
appointed guardian commits a crime after the appointment, wouldn't the
appointment be voided? Surely, the child's best interests would be
upheld over the rights and interests of the guardian, especially if
that guardian were sent to prison? And, as others have pointed out,
Sirius Black seems to have consented to give up whatever rights he had
to Harry (assuming that he had any) when he left both Harry and the
motorcycle in Hagrid's keeping.

Granted, Dumbledore made this decision prematurely, but his question
to Hagrid ("No trouble, was there?") when Hagrid tells him where he
got the motorcycle indicates that he suspected Black of being the
traitor and that keeping Harry from him was essential (in his view)
for Harry's safety, as was the blood magic, which would not work if
Harry were in Black's keeping even if Sirius Black were in all other
respects a suitable guardian. IMO, Dumbledore, as head of the
Wizengamot, was within his rights to place Harry's welfare above the
wishes of his parents, who could not have anticipated the exact
circumstances of Harry's situation.

At any rate, even if you don't agree with my arguments, I hope that
the information on baptism is helpful. Godparenting and legal
guardianship are entirely unrelated concepts, even when the biological
parents anticipate a short lifespan.

You can read the rest of the baptismal service at this link if you're
interested:

http://vidicon.dandello.net/bocp/bocp3.htm

Carol, noting that the State requires a marriage license for a church
marriage to be considered binding and thinking that a similar document
would be required for (prospective) legal guardianship even if the
role of godparent normally included that obligation