Protection-Abuse / Patron-Client (was:re:Blood protection/ Dumbledore and Harry)

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 158597

> Betsy Hp:
> Actually I think the story line points more towards Dumbledore 
*not* 
> being Sirius's patron.  He wouldn't have been naturally.  (I don't 
> see the Blacks ever having someone like Dumbledore as a patron.)  
> And based on the lack of interest Dumbledore took in 
> Sirius's "case", it seems more logical to assume Dumbledore never 
> did take on that roll.  Not until after the great escape, anyway.  
> (It seems likely a change occured after that.  Especially as 
> Dumbledore takes charge of Sirius's will at that point.)
> 

a_svirn:
Um, no. While I agree that Sirius's family couldn't have possibly 
been Dumbledore's clients (more likely they were patrons 
themselves), Sirius himself is another matter altogether. As soon as 
he joined the Order (and, by the way, those private armies do make 
it look more like bastard feudalism, than like Ancient Rom, despite 
what the essayist says), anyway, from the time Sirius switched his 
allegiance to Dumbledore he had claim on his patronage as well. 
That's how the system works – allegiance in exchange for patronage. 
So the lack of interest on Dumbledore's part suggests just that – 
lack of interest. 

> > >>a_svirn:
> > And while we on the subject, there is a salient point in the 
essay
> > you seem to overlook. Unlike the situation in Ancient Rom, in 
the 
> > WW patron-client relationships ARE NOT LEGAL. Which casts 
an      
> > entirely different light on the whole situation, I'd say. 
After   
> > all, Mafia also functions as a patron-client network.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> The essayist, Pharnabazus starts off by saying that the WW is "an 
> extremely lawless place".  So things are done more on tradition 
and 
> power (pretty much like the Mob, yeah).  In which case *within* 
the 
> WW, what Dumbledore does is not only allowable, it's expected.  
> Which was my point.  I'm not trying to say he followed Muggle 
laws.  
> And honestly, I doubt there's really any WW law that covers this 
> sort of thing.  (Why would there be?)

a_svirn:

Who says anything about muggle laws? We were discussing different 
social models, making parallels with the real world. The essayist 
says the WW looks like Ancient Rom because of the client-patron 
networks. I am saying that the fact that these networks are illicit 
in the WW makes it look more like Mafia. And I have trouble looking 
at the good guys from this angle. Kind of different to distinguish 
them from the bad ones. Especially is the best of the good guys is a 
local Don Corleone.