Protection-Abuse / Patron-Client (was:re:Blood protection/ Dumbledore and Ha

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 158610

> > >>Alla:
> > Um, yes, he was starved in PS/SS, IMO. Harry sneaks for food, 
yes, 
> > but it does not make the Vernon's intention different IMO.
> > <snip of quote>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> It does mean though, that Harry was't starved.  To be starved, one 
> can not have access to food.  Harry gets food.  He eats.  Ergo, he 
> is not starving.
> 
> Plus, I think this was more a case of Harry being sent to bed 
> without dinner.  Not the best way to discipline a child, I grant 
> you.  But hardly monsterous.  Or abusive. 

Alla:

Erm, I was talking about Vernon's intention to starve him whether it 
was succesful or not IMO does not matter to evaluate his intention.

And sending to bed without dinner and breakfast and lunch is 
starving IMO.


> > >>Alla:
> > And as we see in CS, Vernon corrects his mistakes by putting 
locks 
> > and Harry cannot sneak out for food anymore.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Right.  And Aunt Petunia brings him food. So again, Harry isn't 
> starving.

Alla:

One cane of soup a day is starving in my book. I am wondering what 
condition Harry would be in if Twins would not have saved him.

 
> > >>Alla:
> > As Wynnleaf pointed out Vernon chokes Harry, over 
nothing         
> > basically. If this is not a physical abuse, I don't know what is.
> > I certainly don't want graphic abuse descriptions in the 
series,   
> > but to me JKR put enough references there to have no doubt 
that   
> > Harry was not just neglected but also physically abused.
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> You really think JKR is being that subtle?  She has Harry carving 
> words into his own hand, and you think she'd shy away from showing 
> Vernon land a blow?  Harry mentioning a beating?  Bruises? Why?
> 
> Basing an entire history of abuse on one instance of a panicked 
man 
> grabbing Harry briefly by the neck (which, yes, isn't good 
behavior) 
> seems quite a stretch, IMO.

Alla:

Well, yeah. She shows Harry's wanting to stay of his reach and she 
shows that Vernon was not panicking there, he just choked Harry out 
of the 
blue. People who do that are abusers in my book, sorry.

And about being subtle - I meant that to me it is clear enough what 
she shows without showing it many times. I was trying to say that 
maybe it is subtle if you don't see it as clear case, if it makes 
sense.


 
> Betsy Hp:
> Hmm, no I really don't think Harry has it so bad.  I mean, he 
> doesn't have it *great* by any stretch, but he's not got it that 
> bad.  I think he's more bored than anything else.
> 
> Now, I don't know if it's a current trend in children's books to 
> suggest that boring a child or refusing them an icecream treat is 
> abuse.  But from my reading experience, I wouldn't label Harry an 
> abused child.  He's... put upon, I guess.
> 
> (As per real life, I wouldn't call Harry abused either, really.  
The 
> only hinky thing is the closet bedroom.)

Alla:

They refuse him enough food, not just refuse him desserts. And you 
compare it to refusing icecream?

"He has known nothing than neglect and often cruelty at your hands" 
What can I say? Sounds to me that JKR disagrees and thinks that 
Harry was not just **bored** child. 

Moreover in the interview JKR called Harry **damaged** and 
**abused**.


JMO,

Alla.