In defense of DD WAS musings on Dumbledore - Even Longer

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 158645

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Diana" <dianasdolls at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Reading these posts I believe that Dumbledore's character and 
> motivations have been greatly misread by some readers.  
> Interpretation of a character is always subjective, however I 
think 
> the neglectful, arrogrant DD portrayed in these rants is off the 
> mark (though the rant was fun to read).  
<SNIP>

Alla:

Your post was fun to read, Diana. It was highly enjoyable read even 
if I disagree with much of what you wrote, **but** please believe me 
when I say it - this is the instance when I really and truly want 
you to be right and myself and James to be wrong. HBP seemed to push 
me towards your interpretation, but recently uncovered additional 
possibilities about DD action that night seemed to push me back in ;)

Diana:
<SNIP>
> Dumbledore's greatest fault, to me, seems to be his faith in the 
> goodness of people.  As another character said in the book, DD 
gives 
> second chances to people he really shouldn't have.  

Alla:

Yes, this is very **attractive** falling, if that makes sense, very 
sympathetic one to me. The only problem to me is that on the night 
of Potters' murder Dumbledore seems to act a bit out of character 
and does not give Sirius a second chance ( by that I mean 
investigating himself what really happened, not relying on hearsay, 
etc), so I would add that DD greatest falling is to give second 
chances to people he should not have and sometimes to give second 
chances to people he really should have IMO.

 
Diana:
> I think you are wrong here.  I do not believe Snape used 
legilimens 
> on students (except once when Harry slashed Draco in HBP).  Harry 
> felt like Snape could read minds, but I don't think Snape was 
> actually using it on Harry.  Why?  Because Snape felt superior to 
> the students and would consider it beneath him to read the 
> unimportant feelings of students' minds.  Harry's feeling about 
> Snape reading minds tells us a lot about Harry; that Harry has an 
> uncanny ability to read people and situations, a gift which has 
> helped him many times since.  DD trusted Snape, perhaps in his 
> folly, but he would not have let Snape teach if he felt Snape 
> was 'mind raping' students.  I don't recall a single instance in 
any 
> of the books where DD used legilimens on any student for any 
> reason.  DD was good at intuiting what someone might be thinking, 
> but that was his experience showing, not mind-reading. <SNIP>

Alla:

Well, this is one of **JMO** arguments. You say all those instances 
when Harry feels it is mind reading was not as such, I say it was, 
you know?

No, seriously, I don't mean to do **tennis match** type argument, it 
is just interpreting the same canon differently. I think in light of 
what we know about Legilimency, eye contact, etc, this is precisely 
what Snape did. Why? Because no matter how superiour Snape feels I 
believe that he would stop at nothing to catch Harry at wrong doing, 
real or imaginary, that is why I think he will stop at nothing to do 
so, including Legilimency.

Now if you would argue that WW does not consider it to be **mind 
raping**, but I can call it nothing but that - reading student mind 
without their consent.

DD I believe also read Harry's mind not once but several times, his 
motivation os of course different - for Harry's own good. Let me 
see, which ones I remember right away - in Cos, when DD asks Harry 
whether Harry wants to tell him something, probably in GoF too after 
TwT in hospital wing. It is just too early for me to search for the 
quotes.

   
Diana:
<SNIP>
This is why the DD we see in 
> HBP is so different - and why Harry's reaction to him is so 
> different - DD has opened up and told Harry the truth about his 
> destiny while at the same time continuing to care about him like 
his 
> own grandson.  DD treats Harry much like a parent teaches a child 
in 
> that he has great pride in his accomplishments, yet worries for 
him 
> and keeps information from him that he should know for the sake of 
> caring too much about him.?<SNIP>

Alla:
Yes, DD of HBP was the most sympathetic to me.


Diana:

<SNIP>

> I don't remember reading anything in the books about there being 
> wizard psychiatrists, do you?  Again, you are projecting our world 
> onto the WW.  What did you expect DD to do with Harry after GoF 
and 
> OotP?  Send him to the psychiatric ward at St. Mungos for 
evaluation 
> and counseling?  DD was aware of Harry's trauma after the events 
of 
> GoF, which is why he did not tell him about the prophecy then and 
> there.  DD explained a great deal to Harry at the end of OotP, all 
> of which gave Harry a lot to mull over during the summer.  While 
the 
> Dursleys aren't exactly a loving family, they are Harry's 
protection 
> and Harry's used to them, so he went home.

Alla:

I can totally tell you what I expect DD to do after GoF. Absolutely, 
this is not a novel about psych sessions, although this is precisely 
what I would say Harry needed, but as a substitute applicable to the 
story - gee, Dumbledore, how about allowing Harry's friends to 
**visit** him at least few times during the summer? To make Harry 
talk to them, to make Remus and or Sirius stop by? I sure don't need 
talk with psychiatrist, but talk with Lupin and Sirius would be very 
good, IMO and okay substitute plot wise.

This is when characters to me suffer so much because of plot 
requirements - Harry really, really should not have been sent to 
Dursleys IMO after GoF . He is **still** having nightmares at the 
beginning of OOP.

So, if he has to for the sake of the blood protection, at least let 
him talk to his friends. Instead Dumbledore isolates him even more. 
Great move, headmaster, NOT. :)

JMO,

Alla, who enjoyed Diana's post very much