In defense of DD WAS musings on Dumbledore - Even Longer/Sirius

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 158730

> Julie:
> That is the reference I meant. As you say, McGonagall implies
> DD knew when she says "Of course" and continues about how James
> assured DD that Sirius would never betray him. It does seem to
> add credence as to why DD easily accepted Sirius's guilt since
> he suspected someone close was passing information to the other
> side and didn't completely trust Sirius as James' secret-keeper
> (as he might not have completely trusted anyone except himself).
> Add the very strong evidence against Sirius, and perhaps it's not
> that surprising DD didn't question Sirius's guilt any further.

Alla:

IMO it can be interpreted that the only thing that was said to DD 
that Sirius would never betray James. That should have made DD to 
investigate further, IMO, if nothing else.

So, if we do not know for sure that DD knew that Sirius was a secret 
keeper, but we know that James assured DD that Sirius would never 
betray him, what are those **strong evidence** against Sirius?

Order was very small, I would not be surprised if DD hand picked 
them himself ( speculating obviously). I certainly think that DD 
owed them something at least and it looks to me that he did not do 
enough for one of his own in the time of need.

 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > Funny, isn't it? When Hagrid goes to pick Harry up he does not 
know 
> > that Sirius is a Secret Keeper. Hmmmm, if Dumbledore knew 
wouldn't 
> > you think that he would have told Hagrid to stear clear from 
> > suspected traitor?
><snip> 
> Julie:
> Interesting point. I don't know if DD suspected Sirius directly,
> or was generally distrustful of everyone in the Order and close
> to James at that point. I suspect that latter. 

Alla:

Oy, if Dumbledore did not know for sure and decided to take Harry 
away just, I don't know... in case, that makes him look worse to me 
not better.

Julie: 
> I also am not sure DD knew exactly what had happened at GH when
> he first sent Hagrid, other than that James and Lily were dead
> and Harry had somehow survived. Did he know at that point that
> Voldemort had been "vaporized"? He may have been withholding
> judgment until he knew more facts, or simply in a big hurry to
> get Harry out of there and assuming Sirius wasn't likely to 
> show up if he was the one who betrayed the Potters. 

Alla:

YES, that is my point - if DD did not know for sure what happened, 
he had to investigate **further**, not take Harry away right away. 
Oh, and another interesting thing, he gives Hagrid an order to take 
Harry, he does not tell him even to offer Sirius to come with him to 
explain. Sounds to me that DD made up his mind already.

Julie: 
> Or it could be just a continuity mistake by JKR.

Alla:

What I hear you saying , when the possibility is raised  that DD did 
not know for sure, because Hagrid whom he trusts with his life had 
no idea who was a secret keeper, it is a continuity mistake?
But Minerva who even was not in the original order cannot be a bit 
confused about the events, or for example forget that she heard this 
version from Fudge and not from DD? 

Julie:
 What I don't
> believe is that DD didn't know Sirius was the secret-keeper 
> and *then* flat out LIED and said the opposite in court. And
> I don't see any other reason for JKR to add the McGonagall bit 
> above to the text if it wasn't to set down that fact. It's not
> 100% proven of course, but far more likely than us finding out
> that McGonagall or DD lied about it. Though if McGonagall is
> ESE...
>

Alla:

Oh, somebody could have wispered to DD later that Sirius was a 
secret keeper all right, the same individual you refer to later on ;)

The thing is I am not buying that DD for sure knew at the time the 
events occurred and that makes me question based on what he did not 
act to investigate further.

And as I said, Mcgonagall was not in the first order, she is 
sincere, I am sure, but she may have heard it from somebody else too 
IMO.

But she also says what DD heard is that Sirius would rather die than 
betray James. Should have DD put any weight for one order member 
vouching for another and I don't know, check more? I don't know, 
talk to Sirius, go pick Harry himself and talk to Sirius. See, I am 
not asking for much, I just want him to **talk to Sirius** :).
 
> Erm, anyway, I know we're going to get more about GH in book
> 7 and I expect what we learn may clear up just how much DD
> knew and how he learned it. The more I think about it, the
> more I believe *someone* must have been at GH and relayed 
> much of what happened to DD for DD to react so quickly. And
> I think that someone's name may just begin with an S and end
> with an E... ;-)
> 
> Julie, revived by caffeine...
>

Alla:

Yeah, and could not have that someone be someone to convince DD that 
Sirius was a secret keeper indeed? Curious :)


> Julie:
<SNIP>
> Still, it is something Dumbledore might have questioned, I agree.
> Definitely a mistake on his part. I just see it as more of a human
> error than anything glaring or malicious, and once Sirius's guilt 
> seemed confirmed, partly by Sirius's own refusal to defend 
himself, 
> that inconsistency didn't seem significant enough to investigate.

Alla:

Yes, a mistake. Glad to hear we agree on that. Of course we disagree 
on the size of this mistake. Of course that does not make DD evil, 
but I just consider this mistake to be a part of his character, 
rather than something that can be brushed under the rug as 
sympathetic mistake that makes him human ( did I mention that I love 
Magpie's posts in this thread? :) Yeah, I did)


JMO,

Alla