What's the Charge against Sirius? (Re: Sirius in perspective)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 158773

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
> 
> bboyminn:
> <snip>
> I suspect the investigation was more like a hearing in which 
> a committee headed by Crouch Sr. review the evidence and 
> found it overwhelmingly against him.
> <snip> 
> Now to the critical point, a point I have made several 
> times before, and a point which the anti-Dumbledore crowd
> seems determined to ignore.
> 
> SIRIUS DIDN'T DEFEND HIMSELF!
>
> <snip>
> It is entirely possible that if they had given Sirius 
> Veritaserum, and asked him if he was responsible for 
> the Potter's deaths, he would have said 'yes' and in
> his mind he would have been telling the truth.
> 
> <snip the remainder of an excellent dissertation> 

Mike:
Steve, I thoroughly agree with your explanation of Sirius' state of 
mind, what would have happened at a trial if Sirius remained in this 
condition and your perspective on Dumbledore's logical response. 
That said, I think there is a flaw in reasoning regarding Sirius' 
arrest and internment. Namely: 

What was the crime Sirius was picked up for? 
What was he charged with?

I submit it isn't a crime as secret keeper to reveal the *secret*. 
However much the revealing of that particular secret lead to the 
Potter's deaths, I doubt Sirius could have been charged with a 
crime. Maybe reckless endangerment would come up later, but not at 
the time of his arrest.

Sirius was arrested because he was standing in a London street with 
a gaping hole on it, 12 dead Muggles and the finger of a presumedly 
dead wizard on the ground. I.E. Sirius was charged with multiple 
murders and the accompanying charges attendant to those murders. 
Note: He was *not* arrested for the Potters murders. The information 
about him supposedly being the secret keeper came out later.

This is the problem, IMO. If Sirius is being charged with killing 
Peter and those Muggles, would his grief over the Potters make him 
confess or not even answer when presented with these charges? He may 
be blaming himself over the Potters, but I guarantee he's blaming 
Peter more. And we're not even talking about the Potters, we're 
talking about those 12 Muggles and Peter. Can you really see him 
admitting he killed those Muggles? Would he even remain silent about 
them? He has no emotional attachment to them. If anybody asks 
him, "Did you kill those Muggles?" would he blithely accept the 
responsibility for Peter's murders?

Could the Ministry trump up some other charges? Sure, later. Right 
now they have a clear cut crime(s) and they are not investigating 
it. You say that Crouch held some kind of hearing, because DD gave 
evidence. Yes, DD told about Sirius' role as SK, not his role in the 
London crime(s). What evidence is there that anything about this 
crime, the one that got Sirius chucked into Azkaban without a trial, 
was investigated? A simple 'Priori Incatatum' on Sirius' wand would 
prove that he didn't cast the 'Reducto' that blew up the street. And 
if Peter's wand was left behind, which I suspect it was since taking 
it with him is a dead giveaway that he's not dead, a 'Priori' on his 
wand shows that Peter cast the 'Reducto'. Not difficult, NOT done.

Now, should DD have forced the Ministry, read Crouch, to do a proper 
investigation? Maybe he tried, we don't know. But we have heard DD 
tell us many, many times that he has no power over the Ministry and 
no ability to force them to do anything. Should he have gone to 
Azkaban to talk to Sirius? I suppose. But if you are willing to 
believe that Sirius said nothing in his own defense throughout this 
whole ordeal, why wouldn't you believe that Sirius wouldn't plead 
his innocence to DD either? In fact, in the state that Sirius is 
suppose to be in, I can conceive of him refusing to see DD, so DD 
couldn't even use Legilimency on him.

--- In message #158757 sistermagpie wrote:
> Magpie:
> <snip>
> And of course, we know they couldn't have used any of the Wizard  
> forensics we know about like Priori Incantatum on Sirius' wand or 
> Legilimency or a Pensieve. I don't remember that quote of JKR's in 
> full but it may have strengthened in my mind the idea that was    
> supposed to have been railroaded.

Mike:
I don't understand why the DMLE couldn't use 'Priori' on Sirius' 
wand. Or the other forensic devices. I know it's not canon, is this 
from another JKR interview? I would appreciate your or JKR's 
reasoning on this.

Mike