Sirius without trial - a perspective

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 158827

Sherry wrote:  <Snip a bunch>
> > > Really?  If that's the case, if Sirius' motive wasn't to save 
> Harry, then why did he let Harry talk him out of killing Pettigrew
when he had the chance?  
> > 
> > 
> > CH3ed butting in:
> > I don't think Carol or anyone else is saying that saving Harry 
> isn't one of Sirius' motives, tho. I think she is saying it isn't
the ONLY motive... or maybe not the primary one. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Well, the way I read Carol's comments was precisely that ( sorry if
 I misunderstood, but I am sure Carol will clarify if it is so) - that
Sirius did not escape because he was worried about Harry, but 
**only** because he wanted to excecute revenge on Peter.
> 
> Now, if one is saying that revenge was on Sirius' mind too, of 
course nobody disputes that either ( as Sherry pointed out), but to
deny that Sirius escaped because he was worried about Harry, that
Peter may deliver the last Potter to Voldemort seems like going
against what canon says, especially since I quoted that bit upthread.
> 
> The only way it can be denied if Sirius is called a liar here and 
> this 
> is the part where I can see no reason whatsoever for him to lie ( I 
> don't think he lies anywhere in canon, but at least when he talks 
> about Snape you can argue his bias, etc). If one denies the truth of 
> this quote, it seems to be that one denies such crucial part of 
> Sirius 
> character, that Sirius stoppes being Sirius, the part of his 
> character 
> that together with his recklessness spelled out in both books and 
> interviews in bold letters , IMO of course.
> 
> I mean, Sirius is reckless, has a temper and Sirius loves Harry. Why 
> would one want to take away the **loves Harry** part, to pretend it 
> is 
> not there?
> 
> > 
> > CH3ed ... is glad not to be a popular author.
> >
> Alla:
> 
> LOL, I know. We certainly analyse and analyse and analyse. :)
> 
> JMO,
> 
> Alla
>

Carol responds:
Actually, you're both right. That is, I concede that concern or
affection (not the right word since they're strangers, but the best I
can do) for Harry could have been a secondary motive (he did, after
all, sneak a peek at Harry on Privet Drive and somehow sneak into the
stands to watch him play Quidditch--how is it that no one noticed a
great big black dog that looked like a Grim?), but I think that
revenge was the primary motive, just as it was when he went after
Pettigrew in the first place. He seems to be consumed by the desire
for revenge, the desire to commit the murder for which he was
arrested, at least until Lupin comes in and insists that Harry hear
the real story. (After Harry starts talking and Black sees how much he
resembles James, the concern for Harry becomes more important, maybe
even taking precedence in his own mind, but how could he "love" a boy
he hasn't seen since he was an infant and doesn't even know? His
concern for Harry would be based solely on the fact that he was
James's son and the innocent victim of base treachery on the part of
Wormtail and perhaps an awareness of the fact that he was Harry's
godfather, whatever that means in WW terms. But love? How is that
possible? You don't love someone you don't know, on principle or for
any other reason. Any "love" (concern for his safety, affection,
desire to know Harry better) that Black feels for Harry at this point
is, IMO, a vestige of his (fraternal) love for James. WHat else can it
be?)

To return to revenge as Black's *primary* take a look at his behavior
in the Shrieking Shack. Does he say, "Harry! Thank God you're all
right! I was afraid that Peter would transform himself into a man,
even though Voldemort isn't back and he's too lazy to act on his own,
and kill you!"? Nope. The first thing he does is point Ron's wand at
Harry and Hermione and say "Expelliarmus!"

Then he says that having Harry come back to help his friend will make
everything much easier. He also says, "there will be only one murder
here tonight" (Why? Harry is safe and sound in front of him.) And when
Harry tries to stop him, hitting Black's head with his fist, how about
this?

"Black's free hand had found Harry's throat--'No,' he hissed. 'I've
waited too long.' The fingers tightened. Harry choked, glasses askew"
(PoA Am. ed. 340).

Sounds more like Vernon Dursley than a loving godfather primarily
concerned with Harry's safety to me. 

When Harry gets his wand back and points it at him, Black decides that
he wants to tell the whole story (though later he interrupts Lupin and
tells him to hurry up as he watches Scabbers "with a horrible sort of
hunger on his face," 355). Then Lupin comes and Black is largely
silent, except for saying that Scabbers is a rat named Peter Pettigrew. 

"'Peter Pettigrew's *dead*,' said Harry. '*He* killed him twelve years
ago!' He pointed at Black, whose face was twitching convulsively.

"'I meant to,' he growled, his yellow teeth bared, 'but little Peter
got the better of me. . . not this time, though!'

"And Crookshanks was thrown to the floor as Black lunged at Scabbers.
Ron yelled with pain as Black's weight fell on his broken leg" (349).

Sorry. Still looks to me as if Black's primary motive is vengeance. I
don't see love for Harry anywhere in this part of the scene. At least
until Snape comes, and to some degree afterwards, revenge seems to be
the primary (I didn't say only) driving force behind Sirius Black's
words and actions.

Carol, who is not calling Black a liar but thinks he may see events a
bit differently after actually encountering the teenage Harry (and
witnessing his relationship with his own old enemy, Severus Snape)