Sirius without trial - Revenge vs Love

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 158865

--- , "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:

> 
> Alla:
> 
> People can lie,yes, so you think Sirius was lying?
> 
> I mean, if he was lying that he was escaping because he
> was worried about Harry, maybe he was lying in the 
> Shack that he wanted to commit the murder he was 
> imprisoned for?
> 
> I think he was saying an absolute truth in both 
> instances and those factors really cannot be divided 
> percentage wise, but the emphasis is made IMO on Sirius
> escaping because he was worried about Harry and to kill
> Peter as revenge and because he was worried about Harry.
> 
> Yes, again the revenge was a big motivating factor, but
> I do not see the evidence that the revenge in itself was
> a factor for Sirius' escape, you know?
> 
> What I am arguing against is Sirius' care for Harry 
> well-being being pushed to the back of his motivations, 
> reduced to something insignificant, you know?
> 

bboyminn:

I think we have the ultimate case of circular logic here.
No, I don't mean the posters, I'm mean in Sirius's mind.
He sees Peter in the photo and knows that he is close to
Harry, and that is the kindling that fuel the fire for 
his revenge, but the revenge is fueled by concern for 
Harry, knowing the Peter is so close and knowing what a
vicious, selfish, and dangerous person Peter can be. 

So love fuels revenge and revenge fuels love, and around
and around it goes each fueling the other. I really don't
think the two can be separated, in a sense, they are one
and the same. The two aspect are threads woven together
into a complex tapestry, each unable to exist without the
other.

I suspect if Sirius was simply aware that Peter was not 
dead and Harry were out of the picture, he would not be
so eager for revenge. He may have then only chosen to 
continue to wallow in self-pity and elected to stay in 
prison. But with Harry in the picture, Sirius absolutely
MUST ACT. He has already failed the Potters once, and he
simply can not live with the thought that if he doesn't 
act Harry will be lost, and he will have once against 
failed in his duty as a friend and protector.

So revenge is fueled by concern for Harry, and concern 
for Harry is fueled by revenge, and around and around it
goes. The two are so inextricably link that they can not
be separated or quantified. They are one and the same. 

As far as whether Sirius loved Harry, I think I agree 
with those who implied that Sirius love the /concept/ of
Harry. He didn't know Harry personally, he didn't even 
really know what he looked like, but he had a concept of
him in his head. At times that concept may have even 
sustained him; knowing Harry was out there, that he was
safe and that in him the Potters lived on. Now compound
that with his sense of duty and responsibility to Harry, 
and I very much think he had created a vision of Harry 
in his own mind, and he very much loved that vision.

So, in conclusion, I really think Sirius's revenge on 
Peter was fueled by his concern for Harry, and his 
concern for Harry was knowing the Peter was close by. The
two are essentially the same emotion, the same motivation;
a boiling cauldron of motivation, periodically one emotion
or the other will boil to the top, but in the ebb and flow,
that emotion eventually sinks and the other rises to the 
top.

When is anger at Peter rises to the top, it is because he
is concerned about Harry and determimed to stop Peter. 
When his concern for Harry rises to the top, it is because
he knows Peter is close by and Harry is in danger. So, I
really don't think the two can be separated, and I don't 
think only one of them would have been enough to make
Sirius act, he needed both. He needed Peter and Harry to
be linked together as the only factor powerful enough to 
pull him out of his self-pity and mourning, and force him
to act.

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn