I HAD A DREAM OR HOW I REALIZED THAT I MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG./ PART 2 sort of

[Annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 167068

 
> Jen:
<snip>
> Harry's learned that an Avada Kedavra is the Killing Curse, it was
> used to murder his parents, that it is considered Unforgiveable
> and that murder is the 'supreme act of evil'.  I could follow a gray
> area reading of Snape's AK, but I don't believe Harry is set up to 
do that.
> 
> The Potterverse moral view on murder was made even more explicit
> in the same book as an AK was cast.  I would expect if JKR wanted
> to examine the gray area of mercy killings or killing on the order 
of
> a commander in a time of war, she would have set up this premise
> by diluting the significance of using an AK for Harry rather than
> strengthening it.
<snip>

Annemehr:
Dumbledore was not specific as to the method to be used, but wouldn't 
you consider his HBP pep talk with Harry a dilution of the view on 
murder?

Dumbledore took Harry from this attitude:
"it was still very hard to believe as he sat here that his life must 
include, or end in, murder . . . " [OoP ch. 38]

To this:
----------------------------------------------------------------
"But, sir," said Harry, making valiant efforts not to sound argu­
mentative, "it all comes to the same thing, doesn't it? I've got to 
try and kill him, or —"
   
   "Got to?" said Dumbledore. "Of course you've got to! But not 
because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest until 
you've tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment, 
that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about 
Voldemort now? Think!"
   
   Harry watched Dumbledore striding up and down in front of him, and 
thought. He thought of his mother, his father, and Sirius. He thought 
of Cedric Diggory. He thought of all the terrible deeds he knew Lord 
Voldemort had done. A flame seemed to leap inside his chest, searing 
his throat.
   
   "I'd want him finished," said Harry quietly. "And I'd want to do 
it."
[HBP ch. 23]
-----------------------------------------------------------------


The "Potterverse moral view on murder" may have been made very 
explicit in this book, but so has Dumbledore's intention that Harry 
*seek to* kill Voldemort, and not reluctantly, either.  Harry doesn't 
just want the Voldemort problem solved, *he wants to kill him.*




Jen:
> Reversing her position now will say that
> Unforgivables are not Wrong with a capital W but only wrong
> in certain circumstances.  Once again I can't see Harry getting
> to the point of understanding that after everything he's learned
> and what he believes.  


Annemehr:
Well, again, Harry went from believing that killing Voldemort would 
be murder (OoP) to wanting to kill him himself (HBP).  He and DD are 
silent on the question of whether either would still call it murder 
or justified killing, but in any case Harry's "understanding" of that 
point has certainly changed dramatically.  More changes are certainly 
possible, and I expect this to occur in his views on what Snape did 
on the tower.

I still wonder about the question of whether it is worse to kill LV 
with an AK than something else -- why it is "Wrong with a capital W" 
as you (and others) say.

Who says AK, Crucio, and Imperio are Unforgivable Curses?  Who 
defined them as such? Was it the Ministry, or the Wizengamot, one of 
which must have attached the Azkaban life sentence as well?  By what 
standard did they make this judgment?

I recall long-ago discussions on what Harry thought he was going to 
do to Sirius in the Shrieking Shack, when he thought he was going to 
kill him.  I think it was Steve (bboy) who suggested he might point 
his wand at Sirius's neck and shout "Diffindo!"  Would this *really* 
be "better" than casting an AK, if he could have?  It probably would 
have hurt Sirius more, but would it have made Harry any less guilty?

Is Avada Kedavra a form of Dark Magic because of what it does (kill 
someone)?  If that *is* the reason it is Dark, than so must Diffindo 
be if you do it to someone's neck.  And then, so must Love be, if you 
use it as a lethal weapon.

If the AK is Dark for some *other* reason than for what it does, then 
we have no hint from canon what that other reason might be.

Conversely, if AK used for malicious murder makes it Dark, but then 
Harry uses it for an entirely justified killing, would it cease to be 
Dark in that case?  No worse than using Diffindo or anything else?

I am not saying I am sure that Harry will end up AKing LV.  I am only 
saying 1)needful killing is apparently endorsed by the epitome of 
goodness, Dumbeldore; 2)what Snape did on the tower may prove to have 
been needful, and 3)I'm questioning the moral judgments about the 
various possible means to achieve the killing that DD has charged 
Harry with.

Annemehr