I HAD A DREAM OR HOW I REALIZED THAT I MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG./ PART 2 sort of

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 167076


> Annemehr:
> Dumbledore was not specific as to the method to be used, but 
wouldn't 
> you consider his HBP pep talk with Harry a dilution of the view on 
> murder?
> 
> Dumbledore took Harry from this attitude:
> "it was still very hard to believe as he sat here that his life 
must 
> include, or end in, murder . . . " [OoP ch. 38]
> 
> To this:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> "But, sir," said Harry, making valiant efforts not to sound argu­
> mentative, "it all comes to the same thing, doesn't it? I've got to 
> try and kill him, or —"
>    
>    "Got to?" said Dumbledore. "Of course you've got to! But not 
> because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest 
until 
> you've tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment, 
> that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about 
> Voldemort now? Think!"
>    
>    Harry watched Dumbledore striding up and down in front of him, 
and 
> thought. He thought of his mother, his father, and Sirius. He 
thought 
> of Cedric Diggory. He thought of all the terrible deeds he knew 
Lord 
> Voldemort had done. A flame seemed to leap inside his chest, 
searing 
> his throat.
>    
>    "I'd want him finished," said Harry quietly. "And I'd want to do 
> it."
> [HBP ch. 23]
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> The "Potterverse moral view on murder" may have been made very 
> explicit in this book, but so has Dumbledore's intention that Harry 
> *seek to* kill Voldemort, and not reluctantly, either.  Harry 
doesn't 
> just want the Voldemort problem solved, *he wants to kill him.*


Alla:

I read this quote differently. I am quite convinced that Harry 
wanting to kill Voldemort will not come true precisely because of 
what **for me** is very clear view Potterverse has abut the murder. 
Could be wrong definitely.

And I also think that the fact that AK is not mentioned here is very 
important. To me AK personifies the murderous intent, the desire to 
kill, something which is bad in itself.

Ugh, I am not making sense, but I am trying to say that I do not 
consider this conversation as dilution of DD's views on the murder.

I also think it is very significant that DD says that "you will never 
rest till you tried". I read "you got to" and this sentence together.

I do not think that DD thinks that Harry has to kill Voldemort at 
all. Got to try to get rid of him - yes, maybe to see that murder is 
not a good thing and in the meantime to get rid of him in some other 
unexpected way. IMO of course.

Of course I believe that Harry will get rid of Voldemort, but I do 
not believe that he will do so with AK or with any other deliberate 
means.



 
> 
> 
> Annemehr:
> Well, again, Harry went from believing that killing Voldemort would 
> be murder (OoP) to wanting to kill him himself (HBP).  He and DD 
are 
> silent on the question of whether either would still call it murder 
> or justified killing, but in any case Harry's "understanding" of 
that 
> point has certainly changed dramatically.  More changes are 
certainly 
> possible, and I expect this to occur in his views on what Snape did 
> on the tower.

Alla:

Yes, I believe that more changes are coming :)



Magpie:
<SNIP>

 But it's dramatic because what AK is is just the wish for 
> someone else to be dead spoken aloud. That's powerful--and I think 
> there's a reason that Crucio (the desire to cause someone else pain 
> in some way) can be something JKR has Harry and try at and fail 
> while she doesn't have Draco even try AK. But I don't really get 
the 
> feeling that AK as a spell stands alone from other spells or from 
> other ways to kill. I think it's just that the intent to kill is a 
> big deal; using it has effects on you and using it a lot has severe 
> effects. I think the big deal is that Snape is killing, and the AK 
> symbolizes that intent itself, which is more formidable than any of 
> the almost-murders throughout the books.

Alla:

Well, I agree that intent to kill is a big deal, and that is why AK 
is a big deal IMO. Does it make sense? Of course AK is not a bad 
spell just because it is called so?

I am not sure what we are disagreeing over here. I agree that AK 
personifies intent to kill, I do not think that there are any other 
spells that do so, and that is why IMO this is one of the very worst 
sins of Potterverse to use it, because you have to have an intent to 
do so.