[HPforGrownups] Re: I HAD A DREAM OR HOW I REALIZED THAT I MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG./ PART 2 sort of

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 167095

Carol again:
I'm a bit confused myself, actually. But my objection to the word "intent" 
is that (to me) it implies premeditated murder. It suggests that he wanted 
to kill DD and that he was planning to do it. There's no premeditation. IOW, 
"intend," to me, suggests an attitude toward a future action. Draco 
*intended* to kill Dumbledore (until he was
confronted with the prospect of actually doing it) just as I *intend* to do 
my income tax. (Not a good example, but I don't have any bad intentions at 
the moment to use for comparison, ;-) ) Snape, AFAIK, had no intention of 
killing DD. He and DD together seem to have been
trying to prevent a confrontation between Draco and DD from occurring (and 
triggering the vow).

Magpie:
Just to be clear, I'm using "intend" and "wish" basically the same way here, 
to refer to Snape's action. I don't think he really wanted DD to be dead at 
all, and he certainly didn't want to do it. I'm just describing the act of 
the AK being the intent to kill by pointing a stick at somebody and saying 
words that will make the person die. I'm using "wish" because it's magical, 
just saying that a spell is like saying a word to make the word come true, 
like a magic wish.

I'm not saying that Snape underneath had a real desire for Dumbledore to be 
dead. Actually, I think HBP plays around with splitting all these 
things--you can take actions that can kill someone without truly wishing for 
it. I think the reason Snape can do an AK while the fourth years couldn't 
isn't because he has some underlying desire for Dumbledore to be dead but 
more because he's an adult, knows what he's doing, and is able to perform 
the curse if necessary.

And I do agree that given the options of the scene, Snape's AKing Dumbledore 
the way he did was a better choice than what he seemed to be facing 
otherwise.

Neri:
So, which reversals can actually fit the bill now? Given our situation with 
only one book to go there isn't much of a choice. I see two basic options:

1. Snape didn't do it, ESE!X did (insert X of your choosing,
preferably unexpected).

2. At the moment of truth, Villain!Snape severs his ties with
Voldemort and saves Harry's life because of Y (insert Y of your choosing, 
preferably unexpected).

And then there's always the default option:

3. No reversal at all.

This last one would be kind of disappointing, but at least it won't 
undermine the Bang of the tower scene. Snape can be a villain in Book 7, 
have a great final confrontation with Harry and die a dramatic villain's 
death.

Magpie:
I think JKR's got more options than the kind you've laid out here. The idea 
that Snape was DDM when he killed Dumbledore sounds lame when you describe 
it the way you did, but I think it's more like a double or nothing gamble. 
It doesn't have to undermine the bang of HBP at all because if Snape is DDM 
then that moment was even more dramatic than it appeared. ESE!Snape is just 
killing a guy he's been ordered to kill by Voldemort. DDM!Snape was killing 
his mentor that he cared about. Maybe right now we can't see how JKR could 
pull that off, but I can't limit her to ESE or ESE at the time!Snape yet. If 
Snape switches sides at the last minute that seems a little convenient to be 
bangy. I'm letting it all ride--whatever Snape is (ESE or DDM) I think he 
was that from the beginning of the series to the end.

-m