Why Avada kedavra is a bad spell WAS: Re: I HAD A DREAM OR HOW I REALIZED

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 167113

 
> Alla:
> 
> Well, I guess I disagree? Sort of? As I told Zara I believe that 
AK 
> is the strongest metaphor of intent to kill in action, that does 
not 
> mean to me that the soul would not split from the murder by other 
> means.

Magpie:
But if Snape had pulled out a gun and shot Dumbledore, would that 
have been less of a murder? Because to me it seems like it would be 
exactly the same. He points a weapon at the guy and does what he 
needs to do to deploy it. I think it's murder, not magic, that 
splits the soul. Otherwise I don't see how the metaphor really 
works, because murder isn't tearing the soul, the AK curse is. 
Voldemort could kill a hundred people and not damage his soul at all 
as long as he didn't use AK, and that seems to go against what 
Dumbledore is saying about what murder does to you.

Alla:

> I think JKR does transfer the the power of the thing which is 
> symbolised to that metaphor. Let me go back to the Dementors, 
which 
> symbolise depression. Their effects **are** terrible, but 
Dementors 
> are horrible by themselves, are they not? NOT just as symbols, but 
as 
> species as well ( among the foulest creatures, etc).

Magpie:
They are horrible by themselves, but they don't leech power from 
actual depression at the same time. Tonks is not dealing with 
Dementors in HBP, and yet she loses her powers. Merope lost her will 
to live and died without meeting any Dementors. There are certain 
qualities that are unique to Dementors--you can't cure depression 
with a Patronus, for instance. But I think the Dementors are 
creatures created around the idea of depression, which also exists 
as itself in the WW. They don't entirely take the place of it.

Alla:
> Dumbledore is angry that Dementors themselves, NOT metaphors for 
> depression are in Hogwarts. He warns students to stay away from 
> Dementors, not symbols. Does it make sense? To me they bad because 
of 
> what they symbolise, but things themselves are powerful too.
> 
> So, by the same token I believe that AK  as metaphor for intent to 
> kill and bad in itself as spell.

Magpie:
But what's bad about it, besides that it is the intent to kill? Why 
should it split the soul where murdering someone by shooting them 
does not? How is it like regular murder and how is it not like it? 
And if it is the spell itself that is bad, why would it be okay to 
use it in self-defense?


> Magpie: 
> > What I think isn't JKR's style is to focus on the mechanics of 
> > magic, so that, for instance, the AK is bad because using that 
> > particular spell causes some sort of magical reaction akin to if 
> you 
> > killed someone using a nuclear device and you got radiation 
> > poisoning yourself. Because I don't think the mechanics of magic 
> > really interest JKR--they seem more like they're interesting 
> because 
> > of the situation they represent.  That's why I don't often think 
> > it's profitable to focus on the mechanics of how spells are 
> supposed 
> > to work to figure out what's going on, be they Life Debts or 
> > Unbreakable Vows or TriWizard Tournament Contracts. I think they 
> > seem to usually be best understood in the most general sense: 
it's 
> > like you feel really indebted to the person, you've promised to 
do 
> > something and if you don't you die, you have to compete in the 
> > Tournament even though you don't want to.
> >
> 
> Alla:
> 
> But I agree that mechanics of magic is not what interests JKR. I 
do 
> not believe that AK is bad because this is this particular spell. 
I 
> believe it is bad because author chose it to symbolise something 
> which is horrible and **because of that** this particular spell is 
so 
> bad.
> 
> Like Life Debt too, it is powerful because of what it symbolises, 
but 
> because of that it can be powerful in itself IMO.


Magpie:
I agree--but isn't the thing that it symbolizes also as bad? Like 
with the Dementors, they are bad in themselves, but I think they 
draw their power from depression and not vice versa. I don't think 
Harry will be performing any AK's, but Snape's use of one seems to 
be appropriate in this situation no matter what letters precede his 
name.

-m