The Prank in DH (was Re: Predictions for the End (what I think, hope and know)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 167304

Alla earlier:
> <SNIP>
> > > I will most definitely blame Snape for Sirius death, but that is
more connected to that he himself claimed to take part in it. I 
interpret it as Snape supplying Voldemort with extra information about
him - be it the same info that Kreacher provided or anything else.
> > 
Julie responded:
> > There's no logic to that argument IMO, because Sirius's death was
completely *unplanned.* Voldemort had no way to know Sirius would be
at the DoM, no way to know he'd duel with Bellatrix, no way to know
she'd get the upper hand on him, etc, etc. <snip> (Apparently at
Spinner's End  Bellatrix is too insane and Narcissa to distraught to 
> > notice the illogic of Snape's claim.) <snip>
 
Alla again:
> 
> Sorry for being unclear. I was trying to say that I blame Snape for
Sirius death if he **correctly** took such credit. We may not know
what he did, but whatever it was, if he is telling the truth to Bella
( and who am I to not believe him ;)), he is to blame in my mind
together with Voldemort, period.
> 
> It does not look planned now, but we may learn what Snape did and 
picture may change.
> 
> I was trying to say that in that instance Snape should be blamed and
should pay with horrible death ;) NOT because he goated Sirius.

Carol now:

I'm glad that you don't blame Sirius Black's death on Snape's goading,
but that may be all that Snape is claiming credit for in stating that
he had a share in Sirius Black's death. He would know, however, as
Bellatrix doesn't, that he (Snape) checked to be sure that Black was
safely at Order HQ. He must have explained to him at that time that
Voldemort had implanted a vision in Harry's mind ("He's got Padfoot at
the place where it's hidden") or Black would have wondered why Snape
was checking on him. And then, of course, after he found out that
Harry and Hermione had gone into the forest with Umbridge and hadn't
returned, he again contacted Order HQ and specifically told Black to
wait for Dumbledore. It was Black's decision, not Snape's, to go to
the DoM. And Julie's post describes what happened from there. Of
course, Bellatrix knew what happened after the Order arrived, and
Snape was not about to tell her the preliminaries.

As for what else Snape might have done that he might have taken credit
for--his job as a double agent loyal to Dumbledore would be to spy on
LV and the Death Eaters, at the same time supplying Voldemort with
just enough information that Voldemort would consider him useful and
want to keep him alive. (I'd say "trust him," but LV doesn't trust
anyone.) So, what information could Snape have given Voldemort
regarding Sirius Black? LV would already know from Wormtail, as Black
says himself, that Black is an Animagus, and Wormtail could describe
that Animagus form in great and accurate detail, having seen it many
times from his Hogwarts years onward. And he would have told LV long
before that Black was James Potter's best friend and Harry's
godfather, that he was the intended SK before the switch, and that he
was a member of the original Order of the Phoenix. He would have told
him the entire story of what happened in the Shrieking Shack. (Snape's
role may have contributed to Voldemort's doubts about him as "one who,
I believe, has left me forever.") And LV would know from the Daily
Prophet that Black had escaped from Hogwarts, still viewed as a
murderer by the Aurors and the WW at large. 

Snape would have had no opportunity to tell Voldemort anything about
Black until his return, on Dumbledore's orders, at the end of GoF. At
that point, he could have told Voldemort (as part of the information
that he had to provide in order to stay alive and continue working for
Dumbledore) that Black was in England and that he had seen him at
Hogwarts in dog form. He would not have known where Black was staying
as that had not yet been decided, and when he did know, he could not
have revealed it because of the Fidelius Charm. ("I cannot say the
name of the place," etc.). Voldemort would have passed on the
information about Black to the Death Eaters. Lucius Malfoy tells Snape
that he has seen Black in dog form on Platform 9 3/4--and Snape, in
turn, passes on this information to Black. Although he's taunting
Black (who is doing the same to Snape with his "Snivellus" and
"Malfoy's lap dog" digs), he's also warning him--you've been seen by a
Death Eater. They know about your disguise. It is not safe to leave
Order HQ.

It is canonically not Snape but Kreacher, escaping to Narcissa, who
tells the Malfoys about Harry's affection for Sirius Black, and this
information is not used to trap or kidnap Black--it's used to entice
*Harry* to the DoM to get the Prophecy orb (and be killed afterwards).
Black and the Order are not supposed to be there at all, according to
Voldemort's plan, and when Snape alerts them that Harry and friends
have been tricked into going there, he specifically tells Black to
stay behind.

IMO, Snape is trying to convince Bellatrix (and through her, the other
DEs who are talking behind his back) that he is both loyal to and
useful to Voldemort, and he knows that she can't dispute his claim to
providing information that led to Black's death because she's no
longer close to Voldemort. But, as far as I can see, the only
information he could have provided is that Black had returned to
England as a member of the reconstituted Order. He could not reveal
his whereabouts, and LV already knew the Animagus secret. If Black had
stayed at headquarters as Snape told him to do, or if Harry had not
believed the implanted vision to be real, Black would still be alive,
regardless of whatever information Snape revealed about him. It was
his own decision that led him to go there, his own recklessness that
led him to fight Bellatrix on the dais in front of the Veil, her spell
that sent him through it, Voldemort's plot to send her and the DEs to
the MoM to get the Prophecy orb (and kill or kidna Harry), and
Kreacher's treachery that led to the use of a vision of Black to lure
Harry to the MoM.

Snape had nothing to do with it and no share in the guilt, or so small
a share that it isn't worth mentioning. He is only acting in his DE
role to persuade Bellatrix of his loyalty and usefulness to LV, and he
claims to have provided unspecified information that she can't
disprove. If a double agent should die a horrible death for stating
that a known enemy of the person he's reporting to (LV) is in England,
then good heavens, let's tear him to pieces and let the Inferi eat
him. But if providing such seemingly useful information is part of the
unavoidable risk of being a double agent and cannot in fact be used by
the Death Eaters or Voldemort as long as Black follows DD's orders and
remains at Order HQ, perhaps we should be a bit more lenient.

Carol, who thinks we should consider Snape's skills as actor and liar
when we read "Spinner's End"