Time-turning

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 167442

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky <bartl at ...> wrote:
>
> From: Steve <bboyminn at ...>
> >Now the fallible loop aspect seems to be the fact 
> >that Harry could have chosen NOT to go back in time,
> > ... In theory, that is true, but ...that it is his
> > one and only chance to save Sirius. 
> 
> OK, here are a few key events on the "line", in order:
> 
> 1) Harry hears the axe fall.
> 2) Shrieking Shack incident.
> 3) Harry & Sirius meet the Dementors. 
> 4) Harry and Sirius get their souls sucked.
> 5) Harry and Hermoine go back in time. 
> 6) Oops. 
> 
> The only explanation is not a line, but a loop; there's
> the way the events go the "first time", and then the 
> way they go subsequent times:
> 
> 1) Harry hears the axe fall.
> 2) Shrieking Shack incident.
> 3) Harry and Sirius meet the Dementors.
> 4) Harry lives, but without help from his future self.
> 5) Harry and Hermoine go back in time.
> 6) ...etc...
> 11) Harry saves himself, realizing that this is how he
> got saved the 1st (really 2nd) time.
> 12) H&H save Sirius.
> 13) Time marches on.
> 
> It's a single loop, but it's a loop.
> 
> Bart
>

bboyminn:

Perspective plays a huge role in Time Turning. From
Hermione's perspective, relative to classes, she is
living a 32 hour day. She goes to class for an hour,
then time turns back and goes to class another hour,
then time turns back and goes to class still another
hour. To Hermione, that is three consecutive hours,
but to everyone else that is a single hour with
Three Hermione's in it. 

In the incident in question, Harry and Hermione live
three hours, then they live three more hours, but
to the rest of the world that is the same three 
hours with TWO Harrys and TWO Hermiones in it.

So the events are like this -

5:45pm time marches on, the Trio goes to the Entrance
Hall

6:00pm The Trio hide in the closet until the Hall is
clear.

6:01pm TT!Harry and TT!Hermione arrive in the Entrance
Hall and hide in a different closet. The Trio hear them
out in the Hall.

6:10pm the Trio run down to Hagrids.

6:12pm TT!Harry and TT!Hermione run out, take a different
route, and head for the forest.

6:30pm The Trio arrive at Hagrids

7:00pm The Minister and Co arrive at the front door
of Hagrid's as the Trio rushes out the backdoor.

7:15pm Ron is dragged into the Whomping Willow by Sirius,
and Harry and Hermione follow.

...etc...

8:59:30pm Dumbledore tells the first Harry and Hermione
to go back and take care of business.

9:00pm TT!Harry and TT!Hermione arrive back at the 
hospital, mission accomplished, 

9:01pm life goes on.

To the perspective of a non-time traveler, that is a 
linear sequence of events. To the perspective that the 
time travelers it is still a linear sequence of events.

To the perspective of a non-time traveler, there were
always two Harrys and two Hermiones there during that
three hours. To the perspective of the time travelers,
they lived that three hours twice, but that is only
because the experience those three hours as six 
consecutive hours. To the rest of the world, those
three hours happen only once, and there were always
two Harrys and two Hermiones in it. Just as to the
rest of the world, there were always three Hermiones
sitting in three different classrooms. 

Yes, technically there is a loop or loop-ish events
since the did go BACK in time. But in linear time,
they arrived at 6:00pm and they were always there. 

Again, as to the question of whether Harry could have
or would have changed his mind and not time traveled,
that is theoretically possible, but it is not 
realistically possible because Harry would have done
anything to be able to save Sirius. 

As I said in a previous post, arguing time travel is
like arguing religion, there is simply no way to reach
a firm mutually agreeable conclusion. But it is still
a fun discussion.

Time Happened Once = Bliss
Time Happened Twice = Misery

Take your pick.

Steve/bboyminn