Time-turning

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 167519

bboyminn:
> Certainly we are all arguing valid theories of Time 
> Travel, but really which is easier and which makes
> the most sense? That multiple divergent inconsistent 
> time-lines are spawned that eventually collapsing back
> on themselves and merge into a whole new consistent 
> time-line, or that the Time Travelers simple arrived 
> at 6:00pm and were always there? There is a scientific 
> corollary that says, the simplest solution is probably
> the correct solution.
<big snip>

Dana:
To some level I agree because in the book, JKR actually writes what I 
consider the end time and thus where we see Harry1 and Harry2 being 
in that part of space at the same time but to say it therefore means 
they where always there, to fit time travel into the story is not 
very logical to me. 

>From here I will refer to Harry before the time travel as Harry0, 
Harry1 is the past Harry (living in the same time as the time-
traveller) and Harry2 the time-travelling Harry.

Your theory seems to imply that Harry2 came out of no where before 
Harry0 was able to time travel (because you say time happens only 
once and all events happen within it, that is what you are suggesting 
right?). In order for Harry2 to actually exist the events must 
already have taken place once because if they didn't he wouldn't be 
there. 

If you look at the story of Hermione taking her classes then the 
second Hermione did not come out of no where. Hermione0 takes the 
first class and then after she is finished, goes back in time to 
become Hermione2 and re-live the same hour again and takes a 
different class. When they come back together she has the memory of 
both classes. Hermione1 is not actually re-living the hour she is 
just there at the same time Hermione2 is re-living the hour. 
Hermione2 does change the past because if she didn't Hermione 
(afterwards) would not have the knowledge of the class Hermione2 was 
taking. Hermione2's actions are still actively changing the present 
by changing the past. Just because her time travel does not affect 
other events around her does not mean her actions changed nothing. 

If Hermione0 would time travel before her first class starts then 
Hermione2 would not be able to attend the second class ever, because 
they occur at the same time and there would be no past to travel to 
or at least not in relation to taking classes at the same time. 
Hermione2 would stop to exist the moment Hermione0 goes back in time 
and therefore would never be able to attend the class if Hermione0 
didn't lived through the hour herself first. 

Your theory is flawed because if the past has not yet occurred then 
there is no timeframe to travel back to from a future point. 
Therefore time can't happen only once and they weren't always there. 
JKR just hasn't written down the first time creating that specific 
past she wanted to have Harry change later. She only writes the 
narrative from Harry1 and then after the jump point from Harry2 
perspective but leaves Harry0's actions out of the story for dramatic 
effect not because the past did not yet unfold entirely as you want 
to imply. 

I am not sure where the idea of history can't be changed came from 
because almost everything in the Potterverse is something that can't 
happen in real life. When was the last time any of you saw someone 
waving a wand (and successfully do magic with it LOL), conjuring 
patroni (?) or apperate from one point to the next? The entire story 
is based on great imagination. 

Time travel is one of them but just because in real live we can't 
time travel in the way it was used in the Potterverse does not mean 
therefore the story is inconsistent. 

And maybe I missed something but no where is it implied that you 
CAN'T change the past just that you SHOULD not change the past 
because it is dangerous and there is a simple reason; you can't 
control the effects your changes of the past will have on the events 
that already occurred; meaning the present. 

For instance if Harry would have burst into Hagrid's hut and killed 
the rat, then the Shrieking Shack scene would never happen and Harry 
would suddenly not know Sirius is innocent and he would not have a 
reason to set the man free and at the same time Sirius would not have 
been captured at all. 

That is why you shouldn't mess with things that already happened; one 
little change can have great consequences. In this case Harry2 did 
not cause Harry1's survival because he already survived, the only 
thing Harry2 did was change the WAY Harry1 survived because it makes 
the story of the marauders complete by having Prongs actively 
participate in an event of that night. 

All JMHO
Dana