Who was responsible for Sirius' death? Who else--Dumbles, of course

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 167576

KathyK:
> And I *still* fail to see how Dumbledore can be blamed so completely
> for the actions of others.  Yes, he knew the Prophecy.  But did he
> truly *know* that Sirius would run off to the Ministry without
> listening to Snape?  Did he *know* that Sirius and Bellatrix would
> duel and that Sirius would happen to be standing so close to the 
> veil that he'd fall through after being hit by whatever spell that 
> was? Did he have any control over what LV was attempting? No. 
> Dumbledore, IMO, does deserve a share in responsibility for many
> things, but he cannot possibly be responsible for every little thing
> that happens in the Potterverse.  Other characters need to take
> responsibility for their actions.  Like Bellatrix.  Or whoever else 
> we like to blame for Sirius's death.  

Dana now: 

Although I am definitely not one, who likes to play the "lets blame 
it all on DD" game, what you are saying isn't correct either. Not 
blaming someone does not mean that no one had any responsibility 
either. You blame someone only because you want to displace your own 
feelings of frustration and hurt onto someone else, but saying no one 
had any responsibility into what happened goes a bit too far for me 
as well.  

DD knew pretty much what LV wanted and why the Order was working all 
year to keep him from it. We know this because Sirius tried to tell 
Harry on his first night at GP. Then, when Arthur is bitten, DD sees 
what he though was a shadow of LV behind Harry's eyes and this is 
confirmed by what DD had been told by Sirius, after Harry had 
confided in him (pg 730 UKed Paperback). That is what initiated the 
occlemency lessons. 
Snape tells Harry himself (or rather confirms Harry own thoughts) 
that LV might try to make Harry do something (pg 471 UKed). 

So in this sense, DD should have told Harry what LV wanted or he 
should have allowed for Sirius to discuss this with Harry but he 
doesn't because he doesn't want Harry to worry to much and feels it 
is up to the Order to make sure Harry is kept safe and keep LV away 
from both Harry and the prophecy. 
I am not saying this to blame DD but he was responsible for his own 
decisions and these decisions had great disastrous effects. Something 
DD had to live with and did not take lightly, I am sure.

But I agree with many others that JKR did a very poor job on the way 
she handled the DoM aftermath scene. She shoves the blame into Sirius 
shoes by letting DD say, that if Sirius had handled Kreacher 
differently then none of this would have happened. I cannot for the 
life of me think of any good reason, why she needed to add this to 
the scene because if it was to point out that every action a person 
takes can have consequences then why on earth does she have DD defend 
Snape's actions. 

If Snape had treated Harry better then Harry would not have forgotten 
to go to him as the last Order member present at Hogwarts and also 
when you hold Snape actions of that evening against the light of day, 
then the man did a pretty bad job of making sure Harry was safe. 

He lets Harry been taken to the Forest by the person that already was 
responsible for DD's exit, for Hagrid's exit and with it McGonagall's 
and she had already tried to get sensitive information out of Harry 
twice, fake veritaserum or not, but he just lets them go into the 
forest without following them? He even lets three other kids go into 
the forest without a teacher and does not go and ask Draco what the 
hell is going on or does not follow them in. 

No according to DD, Snape is even surprised that Harry still thinks 
Sirius might be a captive of LV after he has given Snape the cryptic 
message. Snape thinks nothing of Harry and did nothing until he 
realized Harry was gone. With all the information that was known 
about LV's plan (directly from LV or not, does not matter) Snape 
should have realized that LV planted the vision in Harry's head and 
was trying to lure him to the DoM. Even if it was just a dream then 
Snape should have treated it seriously but he didn't, until he 
noticed they did not came out of the Forest, not even after the other 
three had joined Harry and Hermione (and have no real problem finding 
them either but Snape never goes into the Forest and never claimed he 
did because DD never says he did (pg 730 UKed Paperback)). 

With Snape's actions or lack of actions, to be more precise, makes 
him directly responsible for letting Harry out of his sight and with 
it gives Harry a possibility to go to the DoM. Could Snape have 
known, no he could not have known Harry would fly to the DoM as he 
did, but he has 4 year of Harry experience and he knows the kid can 
get into places and into trouble no one expects him too and this 
alone was enough reason to keep Harry in sight, especially when he 
goes to the Forbidden Forest with a potential enemy. Maybe everyone 
forgot but the MoM was a serious threat to Harry as has been seen 
with the fierce campaign against Harry and DD all year. 

I am not trying to blame Snape but I do wonder why the emphasis is 
made on how Sirius treated Kreacher but not how Snape treated Harry 
compared to the actions of both man in the course of OotP. Either I 
am reading too much into it or JKR wants us to notice DD falls into 
his "I trust Snape" defense a little to much so that he can no longer 
see the man's actions clearly. He even blames himself for the 
occlumency lesson fiasco and not Snape's ridiculous schoolboy grudge, 
which makes him truly hate Harry from the bottom of his soul.  

After these two man's (DD and Snape)core actions everything that 
follows is just the snowball taking on speed and growing over 
everyone's head. Everyone would know Sirius would never stay put if 
Harry was in danger. He comes out of hiding in GoF and lives in a 
cave to make sure he is close enough to Harry to act if he needs too. 
The other Order Members present at GP, when Snape gives them the 
message Harry went to the DoM, can't make him stay behind either. It 
had nothing to do with Sirius not listening to Snape. Only two people 
could have made him stay behind, DD and Harry himself. 

But this does not make both DD and Snape not responsible for their 
decisions because what they decided had effect on more people then 
just themselves while Sirius decision only effected himself and his 
decision to go, might have prevented the death of others because the 
Order Members were already outnumbered with him included. That to me 
is the difference, yes people are responsible for their own actions 
but when your actions include decisions you make on someone else's 
behalf; you automatically have more responsibility in the end result. 

JMHO 

Dana