More to the Prophecy

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 167581

---  "Mike" <mcrudele78 at ...> wrote:
>
> > ---  "arminor75" <april.minor@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > There has been a lot of discussion over the 
> > > discrepancy between DD and Trelawney's recitation
> > > of what happened the night she gave the propecy. 
> > > DD says Snape only heard the first part of the 
> > > prophecy, but Trelawney gave the entire thing in
> > > the pensieve memory without interruption, and she
> > > claims Snape rudely interrupted them, so did Snape
> > > hear the whole propecy ...,?
> > 
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > The first flaw in your logic is that you assume all
> > parties are giving full and completely factual 
> > accounts of what happened. They are not. They are 
> > giving ... general summaries of events, each 
> > emphasizing what they personally feel is important.
> >  <snip>
> 
> Mike:
> Quite frankly, I don't see any logic flaw in April's 
> comments. Yes, each account is given from that 
> character's perspective .... But there is no doubt 
> that Dumbledore is holding back in his account. 
> That's not a flaw in April's logic but rather she has
> identified Dumbledore's lie of omission. 
> 

bboyminn:

Yes, but April doesn't seem to be asserting that 
Dumbledore is or is not telling the WHOLE truth. She is
saying that there is a 'discrepancy'; that Dumbledore's
and Trelawney's accounts are inconsistent or 
contradictory.

They are not inconsistent or contradictory, they are 
simply two different accounts made from different 
perspectives and different frames of referrence.
 
> 
> > bboyminn:
> > Next remember that Snape himself was interrupted. 
> > ... That interruption is what prevented him from 
> > hearing the whole prophecy. ...
> 
> Mike:
> This is your extrapolation of what you think happened 
> based on what Dumbledore told us in OotP with the 
> added information from Trelawney in HBP. I don't buy 
> it. 
> 

bboyminn:

No, this is exactly what is says in the books. The book
says with crystal clarity that Snape did not hear the
whole prophecy. If you don't accept that, which you are
certainly free to, then that is YOUR extrapolation.

> Mike continues:
>
> Professor Dumbledore, did you tell the truth, the 
> whole truth, in that exposition in your office to Harry? 
> 
> ...
> 

bboyminn:

Of course, Dumbledore is withholding information, 
Dumbledore is ALWAYS withholding information, that's
what he does, but what does that have to do with the 
subject at hand? There is plenty of missing information,
tons of it, but that is no reason to doubt the information
we DO have.

There is no reason to think Snape was working for 
Dumbledore at the time, so there is no reason to think
that Snape did not report what he knew. There IS
reason to believe that Voldemort DOES NOT know the
whole Prophecy. If he knew then what was the whole
Order of the Phoenix story about? 


> 
> > bboyminn:
> > Those aren't inconsistent stories. Those are the 
> > same story told by different people with different 
> > perspectives with each different storyteller 
> > emphasizing different aspects of the story.
> 
> Mike:
> Those are incomplete stories. ...
> 

bboyminn:

Incomplete, yes, but not inconsistent or discrepant.


> > bboyminn:
> > Both accounts are correct, they are just focusing on
> > different aspects of the same event.
> > 
> > Or so says I.
> 
> Mike:
> And I says, there's more to Dumbledore's and Snape's 
> story that has yet to be revealed. I says that 
> Dumbledore was hiding more than just the identity of 
> the listener-at-the-keyhole.
> 

bboyminn:

I absolutely agree! There is /more/ to both stories,
much more, but that doesn't mean the stories as we have
already heard them are wrong. They are not wrong, they are
only  incomplete. Further there 'incompleteness' is a
separate issue from whether the two versions are 
consistent or inconsistent. They are consistent, but
very incomplete stories, and that is a point I actually
made. They are not full and complete accounts, they
are generalized summaries from two separate perspectives.

Thanks for the links to the previous discussions.

Steve/bboyminn