Adapting tradition via elves, ghosts, and poltergeists (Was: One Dore [etc.])

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 167618

Magpie:
> > Peeves is the personification of the spirit of chaos, period. His
origins are mysterious, but he was never alive as a human. He's always
just been an entity, it seems.
> > 
Barry wrote:
> A nice description. But here is a definition from Wikipedia: 
> Poltergeist... German for noisy ghost
<snip>
>
Carol responds:

Magpie's description is JKR's own, which I also quoted in an earlier
post. I also cited the Lexicon's entry on Peeves, which gives a clear
idea of Peeves the Poltergeist as JKR conceives him.

Yes, your etymology is the one Wikipedia gives for "poltergeist," but
it's not quiet accurate. "Geist" actually means "spirit," not "ghost,"
as in "zeitgeist," the spirit of the time (or age).

Moreover, JKR is not using Wikipedia as her source for poltergeists,
any more than she's using it for her depiction of the Giant Squid or
owls. Her magical creatures, whether they're magical versions of
common animals or adaptations of beings from mythology and folklore,
do not exactly correspond with the depictions of other authors,
ancient, medieval, or modern of similar creatures.

Let me illustrate what I'm talking about using JKR's elves
(house-elves being possibly just one species or variant of elves
though we don't see any others).

Here's part of what Wikipedia (which, BTW, is not the ultimate
authority on all subjects) says about elves:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf

"The earliest preserved description of elves comes from Norse
mythology. <snip> Although the concept itself is never clearly defined
in the extant sources, elves appear to have been conceived as powerful
and beautiful human-sized beings. They are commonly described as
semi-divine beings associated with fertility and the cult of the
ancestors." <snip> 

Carol again:
You can see from this description where Tolkien's Elves came from
(minus the fertility and ancestor cult aspects), but it has no
relation to JKR's house-elves.

Later on, there's this segment:

"The elf makes many appearances in ballads of English and Scottish
origin, as well as folk tales, many involving trips to Elphame or
Elfland (the Álfheim of Norse mythology), a mystical realm which is
sometimes an eerie and unpleasant place. The elf is occasionally
portrayed in a positive light, such as the Queen of Elphame in the
ballad Thomas the Rhymer, but many examples exist of elves of sinister
character." <snip>

Carol:
Again, no relation to the Pottervers but a definite connection to
Tolkien's Faerie.

Wikipedia resumed:
"English folktales of the early modern period typically portray elves
as small, elusive people with mischievous personalities. They are not
evil but might annoy humans or interfere in their affairs. They are
sometimes said to be invisible. In this tradition, elves became more
or less synonymous with the fairies that originated from native
British mythology <snip>.

"Successively, the word elf, as well as literary term fairy, evolved
to a general denotation of various nature spirits like pwcca,
hobgoblin, Robin Goodfellow, the Scots brownie, and so forth. These
terms, like their relatives in other European languages, are no longer
clearly distinguished in popular folklore.

"Significant for the distancing of the concept of elves from its
mythological origins was the influence from literature. In Elizabethan
England, William Shakespeare imagined elves as little people. He
apparently considered elves and fairies to be the same race. <snip>

"In Victorian literature, elves usually appeared in illustrations as
tiny men and women with pointed ears and stocking caps." <snip>

The article then mentions Snata's elves, the Keebler elves, and Snap,
crackle, and Pop from the Rice Krispies commercials, all variations on
this debased modern conception of elves.

Sorry for the long segment, but my point is that not one of these
elves from mythology, folklore, or literature exactly corresponds to
JKR's house-elves. Like Shakespeare and Drayton and the Kellogg's ad
writers, she has adapted the concept to her own uses. The same can be
said of her ghosts, which don't exactly correspond to the Wikipedia
definition, either. Wikipedia says of ghosts:

"A ghost is usually defined as the apparition of a deceased person,
frequently similar in appearance to that person, and encountered in
places he or she frequented, or in association with the person's
former belongings. The word "ghost" may also refer to the spirit or
soul of a deceased person, or to any spirit or demon.[1][2] Ghosts are
often associated with haunting, which is, according to the
Parapsychological Association, "the more or less regular occurrence of
paranormal phenomena associated with a particular locality (especially
a building) and usually attributed to the activities of a discarnate
entity; the phenomena may include apparitions, poltergeist
disturbances, cold drafts, sounds of steps and voices, and various odors."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost

JKR's ghosts are neither apparitions nor souls/spirits. They are real
(within her world) and they are "imprints of departed souls," to quote
Snape, not the departed soul itself. They are certainly not demons,
nor are they a "paranormal phenomenon."

I think that you're trying to make JKR's ghosts and poltergeists into
the paranormal phenomena they are sometimes depicted as being in
horror movies and TV shows about exorcising spirits. that is simply
not what JKR's ghosts and poltergeists are like, any more than her
witches are wicked old women who eat children, as in "Hansel and
Gretel." (That role she seems to have passed on to hags.)

Carol, apologizing for the long post but trying to say that JKR's
poltergeist does not conform to the definition you are trying to
impose on him