[HPforGrownups] Re: World Building And The Potterverse

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 167631

>> >>va32h here:
>> I don't think Draco's getting the hand behind his father's back is
>> a change in character for Draco. One of the first things we hear
>> Draco say - ever - is "I think I'll bully Father" into letting him
>> bring a forbidden broom to school. Of course we know he didn't
>> *succeed* in that quest, but he was certainly willing to try.

Magpie:
I don't think his getting something behind his father's back is so OOC 
either, but not based on the bullying line. That line is about claiming 
Lucius is on board with anything Draco wants to do. It's exactly that 
fantasy father he claims to have in PS that's replaced in the BB scene by 
the real Lucius who can't be bullied and doesn't dote on Draco. One of the 
many ways we see this is Lucius not caring if Draco wants the Hand of Glory 
or not.

I can fill in Draco's having bought it himself or getting it later 
(actually, I might even imagine a whole psychological thing where Draco 
needed to get the Hand not because he thought he'd need it so badly, but 
because it was a way of sort of undoing the way Lucius behaved in the scene, 
if that makes sense. He might tell everyone that his father just bought it 
for him as if he loved to shower him with gifts). It did, however, ping me 
as a technical mistake more jarring than Harry getting his map back. Because 
this is a supporting character with fewer scenes and things to juggle, and 
in one important scene he doesn't have something, and Ron's line years later 
seems like it's referencing the CoS scene. Even more, I could swear JKR once 
referred to the Hand Draco got "in CoS" when really she just established it 
existed and Draco had seen and liked it. It could have been handled easily 
by just having them describe the shrivelled hand and have Harry say it's the 
Hand of Glory and explain what it does, having been there in CoS, rather 
than having Ron suggest they have reason to know Draco has a Hand they'd 
have little reason to see, but know he has because they remember the B&B 
scene.

>>>va32h:
>> And at this stage of the story, Lucius is not only in jail, but he
>> is Voldemort's least favorite Death Eater, and Draco is quite
>> puffed up about being given the assignment that is supposed to
>> redeem the Malfoy name. I have no trouble seeing Draco willing to
>> defy the wishes of a father whose incompetence got him in jail and
>> on the wrong side of Voldemort.
>
> Betsy Hp:
> Ooh, you're not taking into consideration the Malfoy family take on
> how Lucius ended up in jail.  I seriously doubt either mother or son
> agree that it was Lucius's incompetence.  Draco (as per the end of
> OotP) blames Harry, and Narcissa (a lot more correctly, IMO) blames
> Bellatrix.  Of course, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if Draco, in his
> secret heart of hearts, might be blaming his dad for the mess he's
> in.  But I'm not sure Draco ever got around to confronting that
> feeling.  I think the closest he got was his rejection of Snape.

Magpie:
Draco seems to be, if anything, working extra hard to not shake his view of 
his father. It's all or nothing--if he succeeds he'll redeem both of them. 
Any anger he has at his father I don't think could really be looked at 
during the year. If he even started down that road he'd probably crack, so 
he only ever expresses it by challenging Snape. When Snape even brings up 
his father he storms out. I would like to think Lucius has become a hot 
button subject for Draco (unlike early in the year when he was able to 
imagine he was doing this for Lucius, who'd been wrongly imprisoned, and 
would fix everything asap).

>> >>va32h:
>> We aren't shown Draco acquiring the Peruvian Instant Darkness
>> Powder either, but apparently he did. So my assumption was that he
>> obtained the two objects at the same time - perhaps he saw the
>> Darkness Powder in the Weasley's Wizard Wheezes catalog and thought
>> of the Hand - and ordered them both by mail or asked one of the DEs
>> assigned to his project to obtain them.
>
> Betsy Hp:
> I *know*. Lord, and it would have been so *easy* for Ron to just say
> something to the effect of, "he had a hand of glory".  Then Harry
> could make the connection, and we readers could assume Draco got it
> when he got his other supplies.  But there wouldn't be the suggestion
> that JKR thought she'd had Draco get the hand back in CoS.  (And
> perhaps in future editions, this mistake will be fixed.)

Magpie:
Right. It's funny, because she's trying to do it the same way. We only need 
to know the Darkness Powder exists and then it's easy enough to know that 
Draco's supposed to have purchased it. The Hand of Glory is only surprising 
because--darn it!--we get this line indicating the author forgot she's 
talking about something Draco didn't have. If only she'd done it the way you 
describe, we could just assume he bought it.  (It would totally screw up the 
B&B scene to try to have Lucius buy Draco the Hand, which is why we remember 
he didn't get it.)

>> >>va32h here:
>> Actually I thought it was the complete opposite. I certainly don't
>> think she finds it insulting to be considered a children's author,
>> if that is what you mean.
>> <snip>
>
> Betsy Hp:
> I think it was more that she didn't like the idea that her books were
> *merely* children's books, in that they were somehow lesser than.  I
> can't recall the quote, but I think she said something to the effect
> of not coming at the series as if she were writing children's books.
> (And now that I think on it, I think she did specifically say she's
> not at all insulted to be called a children's author.)

Magpie:
Being somebody who also hates the idea that books written for children are 
supposed to somehow be lesser than books for adults, I believe what she said 
was that she just wrote the story she wanted to write and it turned out to 
be a children's book. In the past people have used that quote to try to 
prove they're not children's books, but of course she's actually validating 
that's exactly what they are. If they weren't they wouldn't be published by 
the people who published them. As the series has gone on they've become YA.

None of which implies they're supposed to lack continuity, of course. 
Obviously there's reason for a kids' book to be *more* consistant so they 
can follow it. I think she's trying to be consistent, but having tons more 
stuff in her head, it's a lot harder for her than it is for us, who get our 
canon in neat book-shaped packages.

-m