[HPforGrownups] Re: Who was responsible for Sirius' death? ...

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 167639

Neri chimes in:
During the above two years we don't know about a single item of
information that secret agent Snape had managed to bring from the
enemy camp to save the day. It does look like he had brought the
information about Draco's mission, but due to his own abysmal handling of 
this situation it didn't help any. Overall I'd say right now
DDM!Snape is looking like a serious contender for the title of the
worst secret agent in the history of both literature and RL.

Magpie:
Doesn't it rather make Dumbledore the worst commander in history? A lot of 
the things you've listed here seem like they (just like the claims that 
Snape in OotP was supposed to know that Harry would be able to get to the 
MoM) put a bit too much responsibility on Snape while, imo, often ignoring 
the things JKR put in that explain why things went the way they did. In the 
OotP scenario it comes down to, as was said earlier in the thread, 
superspy!Snape expected to know that Harry will be able to do all sorts of 
things Harry can't and didn't do.

With HBP at least we do have clear things that blatantly do make Snape look 
guilty, like killing Dumbledore. No idea how that's going to be explained if 
he's DDM. But some of the others have good reasons Snape the super spy would 
not be able to fix it. Whether or not Snape wanted the DADA job is hardly 
more important than the fact that Dumbledore gave it to him, so isn't DD the 
fool there?

Concerning Draco, I don't know why anyone would consider Snape as 
mishandling that situation. It read to me far more obviously as a situation 
coming to a head because of individuals driven by different powerful 
agendas. Snape is dealing with a teenager who is changed. His previous 
relationship with him is why Snape is a figure Draco is challenging and 
rebelling against. It's not a reason that Snape should be able to know what 
Draco is doing (even the question of Legilimancy is for once actually 
answered in the text where we're told he can't read his mind because he's 
doing Occlumency). Dumbledore is no more able to stop the necklace or the 
mead than Snape is. Not to mention, it's possible that Dumbledore could be 
keeping Snape from taking more decisive measures with Draco. Harry tells DD 
Draco's up to something in the RoR and Dumbledore dismisses him. Snape might 
have gotten as far and would have gotten the same response. Whichever man 
Snape is, Dumbledore is in control of the plot in HBP. The final 
confrontation with Draco seems like something DD was working towards.

Neri:
The only
positive things he had managed - blocking the curses on Dumbledore and
Katie - had no apparent connection with his secret agent career. He
could have done them without being a spy in the enemy's camp.

Magpie:
But that's really neither here nor there, because we're in Harry's pov and 
Harry is not privvy to any secret information Snape would give Dumbledore. 
We don't know what information Lupin is getting from the werewolves either, 
but presumably that doesn't make him incompetent.

Neri:
So right now, blaming DDM!Snape for irresponsibility during the night
of the MoM battle seems rather like abusing a corpse. He has so many
worse things to explain first. Not to mention that at the moment
DDM!Snape is somewhat hypothetical anyway.

Magpie:
To me, it seems more significant than that (the blaming him for the MoM 
battle) because it's so bizarre. Snape's the guy responsible for the 
victory, so why is he being criticized for not watching Harry every second 
(which nobody's ever done), not figuring out Harry had flown to the MoM 
miles and miles away (something that came about by chance) and whatever else 
a real spy would have done? The only reason Harry and his friends are saved 
is because Snape alerted the Order.

Neri:
If, however, Snape is *not* DDM, then it is almost certain that his
actions during the night of the MoM operation will be revisited, and
there will be some new revelations about it. If this will be the case
then JKR had surely laid the groundwork for it in the end of OotP.

Magpie:
Wouldn't he be revealed to be just as incompetent if not moreso? Why on 
earth did he send a squad of Order members to the MoM when Voldemort had 
sent a team of DEs to get in and out with the Prophecy? When there was no 
reason whatsoever for him to send anyone to help at all? Everything went 
exactly as Voldemort planned, so why did LVM!Snape decide to send in the 
cavalry? Just to spice things up?

-m