Will the Real Severus Snape please step forward?

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 167760

Goddlefrood:

A few little further observations and opinions  and then the 
theory itself in this post. I have mentioned the acronym of  
the theory before. It is S.L.A.N.O.B.A.N.T.I.T.S. - Snape 
Looking After  Number One, But Also Number Two In There 
Somewhere.

On Lily first,  one thing that I find interesting about Snape 
and Lily is that they were  most probably in the same NEWT 
level Potions class. I have a prediction  relative to this, 
which is that Lily was responsible for the Potions tips  
contained in Snape's copy of Advanced Potions. Snape copied 
from her,  thus becoming more proficient at Potions himself 
to the extent that he is  often described in canon as the 
Potions Master. Some of the spells, such as  Levicorpus and 
Sectumsempra were Snape's inventions, but IMO, the Potions  
tips were not. That Lily was a widely respected and talented 
witch would  also lead to my conclusion that Snape revered 
Lily without necessarily being  in love with her.
 
Julie:
I  still don't see even a small clue (and JKR loves to drop those)
that  Lily was responsible for any of the potions tips in Snape's
book. Yes, Slughorn said she was talented, but his comment
of "Even you, Snape..." when referring to her abilities indicates
that Snape was highly talented himself, nearly as much so as
Lily. And remember, this is a sycophantic man's interpretation,
so their talents might have been quite equal or even tipped the
other way. What we can be sure of is that they were *both* very
good at Potions. 
 
I do agree that Snape could have respected Lily (revered is a
little to worshipful for me) without necessarily being in love with
her. And clearly Snape did respect Lily, because in all the very
numerous instances when he's been thrilled to verbally stick it
to Harry where it hurts, he's never once denigrated Lily. That can't
be a mere oversight on JKR's part. ("Darn it!" thinks JKR as HBP
is off at the publishers, "Here Snape stole Lily's potions notes,
called  her a mudblood because he hates all Muggleborns, and
got rejected by her in favor of James, and for six books I FORGOT
to have him vilify her even once though I had him vilify James four
hundred and twelve times. What was I thinking?!)
 
<snip>


Goodlefrood:

It is also rather unlikely, but admittedly not  quite impossible, 
for Snape to have gained Dumbledore's complete trust in a  period 
of only about two months. This is calculated from 1st September  
1981 (first day of school) until 31st October 1981 (Voldemort's  
downfall). If he did gain Dumbledore's complete trust in that 
short time  the reason must have been more than just his remorse 
over effectively  sending Voldemort after the Potters.

Barty Crouch Jnr has something to  say on this matter, this from 
GoF (Bloomsbury Hardback Edition p.  410:

"Course Dumbledore trusts you," growled Moody. "He's a trusting  
man, isn't he? Believes in second chances. But me - I say there 
are  spots that don't come off, Snape. Spots that never come off, 
d'you know what  I mean?"

The real Mad-Eye Moody was less than convinced of Snape's  
goodness too, witness his expression in Karkaroff's Pensieve 
proceedings  in the same book (p. 513).
 
Julie:
I'm afraid I don't see either the real of fake Moody as exactly
unbias judges. Barty Jr was a pyschopath, and real Moody is
known to be highly distrustful and paranoid. It's a bit like asking
Snape his opinion of Sirius and vice versa. 
 
Goodlefrood:
If Snape was invaluable to Dumbledore, then, as I have said  
before, surely he would have been *more* useful away from 
Hogwarts than  at it, that is after the rebirth of Voldemort. 
He would have been able to  spy more effectually, I propose, 
by getting in more with Voldemort and his  plans over the course 
of OotP, which, other than the Prophecy issue, we are  not so 
far privy to. I can not envisage that Voldemort planned nothing  
other than the Prophecy snatch for an entire year, he simply 
does not  come across as someone who concentrates only on one 
evil plan at a time, at  least not when he is in a corporeal 
form.
 
Julie:
Voldemort originally sent Snape to spy on Dumbledore. Presumably
once he was back in corporeal form he wanted Snape to continue
with that task. I.e., what Snape does as a spy is actually more
dependent on Voldemort's desires than Dumbledore's. And while I
suppose Dumbledoe could have "fired" Snape and hoped Voldemort
would give Snape a more central task within the DEs, it would become
be much harder for Snape to pass along any information he gathers
to Dumbledore and the Order when he's no longer expected (by
Voldemort) to be in continual proximity to Dumbledore and  Company.


Goodlefrood:

A further matter that has been of interest to me, and  for which 
I have yet to see an explanation is how come Snape seemingly  
never figured out that Scabbers was Wormtail and that may bear 
further  examination.  Not by me here and now, but perhaps one 
day in the not  too distant future I will look into it more 
closely again, unless someone  wants to offer an explanation, 
which would be welcome.
 
Julie:
Others have said it, but it boils down to the fact that we have no
evidence that Snape even knew the Maurauders were Animagi,
let alone what animal forms they took, or what names they
used (e.g. Wormtail for Peter). Thus there's no reason for 
Snape to even consider Scabbers to be anything other than 
what he appears. 



Goodlefrood:
<snip various examples of Snape's face twisting in fury  when 
faced with reminders of indignities suffered by actions of the
Marauders, while accepting their veracity>

Of course we know that  Sirius and Snape are not bosom friends, 
but as you can see the reaction to  each of three marauders who 
were not Death Eaters is one of fury, hatred and  twisted features. 
I apprehend that it gives us a key to his look on the  tower, and 
this is of course notwithstanding what I said in part 2 (Tobias  
& the Angel), in that Snape ultimately blamed Dumbledore for the  
prank incident, whether this was a rational belief I will not 
say. What  I will say is that any time Snape is reminded of the 
prank his fury is  terrible to behold. Therefore, Severus finally 
snapped atop the tower and  killed the man he blamed for years of 
misery. Put that one in your pipe and  smoke it ;).
 
Julie:
While your theory can't be disproved, it seems much more likely
if JKR was making an analogy between Snape's expression on the
Tower and previous similar expressions, she'd know that such 
correlations make a much stronger impression when presented in
close proximity. Thus, Harry's expression of disgust and hatred for
what he was doing (forcing poison down DD's throat) and Snape's
equally disgusted and hateful expression while AKing DD are the
intended analogies. And Fang's howl of agony is analogous to 
Snape's expression of agony a few paragraphs later. The only
other explanation for those two instances of analogy to be present 
in such close proximity in HBP is that JKR didn't recognize the
descriptive similarities as she was writing them, and that I find
hard to believe.


And as for Snape "snapping"...well, we have seen that happen a
couple of times, when Sirius "escaped" in POA, and again after
he pulled Harry out of his worst memory in the Penseive. Both 
times Snape completely LOST it. The man just doesn't "snap",
he SNAP!s, with big flashing colored lights around that word!
On the Tower Snape was in complete control of himself. He 
acted with cool deliberation, nothing like our previous experiences
with Snapped!Snape. 
 
Additionally, the stick point for me with the Tower scene will 
always--ALWAYS--be Dumbledore's pleading before Snape even
reaches him or meets his eyes. Until that can be explained in
terms that make true sense for any interpretation but Dumbledore
pleading for Snape to "do it", then I will never buy a Tower!Snape
who turned suddenly turned evil at the last  moment.

Goodlefrood:
<snipping some of theory that Snape is doing his evil deed 
for Irma Pince, who's name anagram "I'm a Prince" is JKR's
way of tying her to Snape coincidentally rather than by 
actual blood relationship.)

This is somewhat reinforced by my belief  that we have been 
misled regarding Irma. I put it to you all that she was  the 
sniggering little girl in one of the memories Harry had a 
glimpse of  when breaking into Severus's thoughts in an 
Occlumency lesson.


Julie:
I got the impression from the books that Irma Pince was 
somewhat older than Snape, making it possible for her to
be his mother, but really not possible for her to have been 
a schoolmate of his. Besides, she laughed at him. Why 
later would Snape be tied to her?
 
<snip>

Goodlefrood:
>From J.K. Rowling interview transcript, The Connection  (WBUR 
Radio), 12th October 1999:

"Lydon: But you'd get an important  kind of redemptive pattern 
to Snape

JKR: It is, isn't it ... I got  ... There's so much I wish I 
could say to you, and I can't because it'd ruin  ... I promise 
you ... whoever asked that question, can I just say to you  that 
I'm - I'm slightly stunned that you've said that - erm - and 
you'll  find out why I'm so stunned if you read book 7. And 
that's all I'm going to  say."

Available in full here:

_http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/1999/1099-connectiontransc2.htm_ 
(http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/1999/1099-connectiontransc2.htm) 
 
Julie:
Okay I'm going to do this once again. You didn't include the first few 
sentences of this quote. Here it is again in full:
 
Lydon: Er - one of our connec- ... one of our internet correspondents  
wondered if Snape is going to fall in love?
 
JKR: Yeah? Who on earth would want Snape in love with them, that is a very  
horrible idea. Erm ... 

"Lydon: But you'd get an important kind of redemptive pattern 
to  Snape

JKR: It is, isn't it ... I got ... There's so much I wish I  
could say to you, and I can't because it'd ruin ... I promise 
you ...  whoever asked that question, can I just say to you that 
I'm - I'm slightly  stunned that you've said that - erm - and 
you'll find out why I'm so stunned  if you read book 7. And 
that's all I'm going to say." 


...now, JKR is talking *to* Lydon. She says "There's so much I
wish I could say to *you* etc...I promise *you*..WHOEVER asked
that question etc..."
 
"You" (Lydon) who mentioned the redemptive pattern, and WHOEVER
("one of our Internet correspondents" who Lydon referenced) are *two*
different people. When JKR is says WHOEVER asked that question,
she is referring to the Internet correspondent who wondered whether
Snape is going to fall in love. Her response "WHOEVER asked that
question, can I say to you (WHOEVER) that I'm - I'm slightly stunned
that you've said that -erm- and you'll find out why I'm stunned if  you
read book 7." 
 
In other words, her astonishment and promise of an explanation in
Book 7 refers to Snape falling in love, NOT to Snape's redemptive
pattern (JKR's definitive response to the latter is "It is, isn't  it...")
 
That's my reading anyway, and I'm sticking to it!
 
Julie




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