Nitwit? - Remus John Lupin

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 167933


> 
> Goddlefrood:

> 
> Oh, and I'll wager a few squid on Lupin not being evil ;)
> 
> This part I will expound on now. I have glimpsed some pattern 
> here ;), ESE!Lupin is a nice little theory, as with many others 
> it is not entirely disprovable, but I'll give some thoughts :)
> 
> A Curriculum Vitae of Lupin, some real, some reasonable 
> extrapolation:
> 
> (i) He was born and later bitten by a werewolf, thus becoming 
> one himself.
> 
> (ii) He attended Hogwarts with the other Marauders, who 
> discovered him to be a werewolf and learned to be Animagi to 
> keep him company. Dumbledore had ensured he could come and as 
> part of the arrangement The Whomping Willow was planted and 
> The Shrieking Shack organised.
> 
> (iii) He was a member of the original Order of the Phoenix and 
> may well have begun spying on the werewolves back then. He 
> remains in the Order.
> 
> (iv) In year 3 of Harry's time at Hogwarts he was, IMNSVHO, the 
> best DADA professor seen so far. He left under a cloud having 
> beeen outed as a werewolf to the student body.
> 
> (v) He went back to spying on the werewolves.
> 
> (vi) Tonks fell for him and consequently changed her Patronus 
> (( )):**
> 
> Not a lot of a contentious nature there ;)


wynnleaf
No, because you left out the parts of his betraying Dumbledore's trust
on several long-term occasions, both as a student and an employee. 
And you left out his putting an whole school full of children's lives
at risk for an entire school year, solely for his personal benefit of
maintaining the goodwill of the headmaster.  

Goddlefrood
> During the first rise of Voldemort (a relative of Voldermort ;))
> he was suspected of being a spy for LV, probably with some 
> prompting from the rat.

wynnleaf
Pure speculation.  Zero canon that Pettigrew had anything to do with
suspicions against Lupin.  Certainly, Sirius didn't accuse Peter of
any such planting of suspicions during his cataloging of Peter's
wrongdoings.


Goddlefrood:
 What I know is that JKR likes him a great deal, don't
> believe me, though, so here she is:

<many snips>
JKR quotes:
> "...he is one of my favorite characters in 

"...I've written a teacher ... the kind of teacher 
> I'd have loved to have had."

" Lupin's failing is he likes to be liked. That's 
> where he slips up - he's been disliked so often he's always 
> pleased to have friends so cuts them an awful lot of slack."

wynnleaf
Yes, a *great* deal of slack.  

As regards JKR lying.... Lupin can easily betray Dumbledore or the
Order without JKR lying.  Lupin has *already* betrayed Dumbledore,
after all.
 
JKR quote
> "Lupin was very fond of Lily, we'll put it like that, but I 
> wouldn't want anyone to run around thinking that he competed 
> with James for her. She was a popular girl, and that is 
> relevant. But I think you've seen that already. She was a bit 
> of a catch."

wynnleaf

Not sure what this has to do with Lupin possibly betraying anyone --
with the exception that he probably wouldn't have wanted to see Lily dead.

>JKR quote 
> "No, but this obviously sprang from the fact that Lupin's 
> Christian name (Remus) comes from one of the mythical founders 
> of Rome who had a twin called 'Romulus'. (They were raised by 
> wolves, incidentally)."

wynnleaf
What's this got to do with whether or not Lupin could betray anyone on
the good side?  After all, he's *already* betrayed Dumbledore's trust.
 If Sirius had not been innocent, Lupin could have betrayed Harry to
his death -- solely for Lupin's own benefit, I might add.  Is there
some sort of reason why liking Lily, or being named "Remus" will
prevent Lupin from doing that again?

JKR quote
> "Alas, no. Lupin's exposure as a werewolf did irreparable damage 
> to his prospects for a career in teaching, and with the likes of 
> Fenrir Greyback out there, werewolves are unlikely to receive a 
> good press any time soon."
>
 wynnleaf
There is a question about Lupin's "exposure as a werewolf," since the
Ministry already knew he was a werewolf ["There aren't many who'd have
let you hire werewolves," Fudge in GOF] and Lupin speaks in POA of
having already had a hard time keeping a job due to his condition. 
Just how secret *was* his secret?  Certainly, the kids didn't know it,
nor probably many parents.  But in OOTP, we learn that restrictions on
werewolves were drafted (actually during the time-period of POA) that
made it would make it hard for Lupin to get a job.  Since these were
ministry regulations, and Lupin was known by the ministry to be a
werewolf, he would have been subject to these regulations regardless
of any "outing" by Snape at the end of POA.

> Goddlefrood:
> The evidence is certainly thin that he's evil, but I never 
> entirely discount such things. I could, if asked, debate this 
> matter a little ;)


wynnleaf
Unfortunately for Lupin, JKR's quotes about Lupin really only confirm
that he comes across as a nice guy, with a problem you can sympathize
with, and he's a good teacher.  Since JKR has also said that Snape was
a "gift of a character," her saying that she likes Lupin "as a
character" or that he's one of her favorite characters does not
necessarily equate to "he's a wonderful person and you can trust him."  

It is no accident that JKR created a likable major character that is
also one of the least knowable.  

Further, Lupin now has probably the most complete set of character and
plot points to allow JKR to use him to believably betray Harry or the
Order.

1.	She has given him motive.  As a werewolf, he sympathizes with the
plight of his peers under ministry restriction.   He claims them as
his peers in HBP and we've seen his sympathy for other werewolves at
St. Mungos.   He may dislike Fenrir, but that doesn't mean he dislikes
all werewolves and wouldn't work to help them.  Voldemort offers them
a lot.  Would Lupin jeopardize the Order to maintain the goodwill of
friends among the werewolves?  Well, he *has* jeopardized a school of
children and Harry's life in order to maintain the good will of
Dumbledore.

2.	She has given him opportunity.  As a spy among Voldemort's
werewolves, Lupin has access to the enemy, giving him an opportunity
to betray the Order – through evil intention or through weak decisions.

3.	She has given him the character flaws that could make betrayal
believable.  His willingness to allow his friends far too much leeway
(and we don't know who all he counts as friends).   JKR showed us the
depths to which this character flaw would take him when she had him
jeopardize the lives of so many kids for an entire school year, solely
for the personal benefit of maintaining the goodwill of the headmaster.

4.	  She has shown us that he's excellent at deception.  For good or
ill reasons, we've been given numerous examples of Lupin's ability to
deceive.  Throughout POA, he kept secrets even from Dumbledore,
directly lied to Snape's face without apparently getting caught, and
deceived Harry, not to mention the whole school.  

5.	She has given him a cloudy past.  He is the only major character
for whom she has not given *any* indication of how he spent the years
between the Potter's deaths and his appearance in the series.  With
all other major characters we are given *some* sort of information –
they were retired (Slughorn and Moody), teaching at Hogwarts, working
for the ministry, etc.  But with Lupin – nothing.  Except that Lupin
states that his condition has always made it hard to keep a job. (And
if so, didn't employers already know about him, even before Snape
outed him?  The Ministry obviously knew.)  Yet his bag on the Hogwarts
Express had the peeling letters of *Professor* R. J. Lupin, and seems
to indicate that he'd been a teacher in the past.  

If JKR once again has a character revealed as betraying Harry or the
Order, we know that this time it won't be a new character.  That means
it will be someone that we already know.  And it would make the most
literary sense for JKR to have prepared the readers for that
revelation – oh, not obviously, but in setting the stage with already
revealed motive, opportunity, character flaws, etc.  And she's done
that more thoroughly with Lupin than any other character.  She's even
shown us quite thoroughly that he *can* and *has* betrayed Dumbledore
and Hogwarts through his actions in POA.  Sure, he's oh-so-sorry, but
that doesn't mean he wouldn't do it again.  After all, POA was not the
first time Lupin had betrayed Dumbledore's trust.  It was just the
first time Dumbledore learned of it.

This doesn't necessarily mean that Lupin would therefore be
Evil!Lupin.  I could also see Lupin as being Weak!Lupin (as Snape
perhaps meant in his comment regarding Tonk's patronus) – a person who
would betray the Order and Harry while trying to protect another set
of friends, perhaps among the werewolves.  

wynnleaf