Nitwit? - Remus John Lupin

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 167954

In:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/167931

> Goddlefrood:

> The evidence is certainly thin that he's evil, but I never
entirely discount such things.

In:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/167933

> wynnleaf
> You left out the parts of his betraying Dumbledore's trust 
on several long-term occasions, both as a student and an 
employee.

Goddlefrood:

Ok, the teacher part, possibly, but as a student? You must mean 
that he did not immediately tell Dumbledore about his three 
only friends being Animagi by their fifth year. Not that odd, 
IMO, as schoolchildren, and whether they are wizards with powers 
or not, the Marauders were schoolchildren, who are usually 
encouraged, in a situation such as at Hogwarts (being as it is 
comparable with a Muggle boarding school), particulalrly in the
British Isles, are encouraged not to tell tales. Marietta did 
so, in a different context, but it is suggestive to me that the
parallel between Muggle children in a similar setting and wizard 
and witch children at Hogwarts is being drawn.

One never, but never sneaks, and heaven help you if you do. 
Remus does not come across as the most outgoing personality, 
and while he may have had some popularity as a Marauder, he 
almost certainly would have lost that had he told tales on his 
friends.

As a teacher I do see where he was betraying Dumbledore's trust 
by not telling him of Sirius's Animagus form at the outset. Those 
who have closely read my own theories and interjections could 
divine that my view of Dumbledore is as less than the perfect 
mentor. I do think he is more of a manipulator, and would not 
be at all surprised if he knew of Sirius;s Animagus form. He's 
certainly not overly surprised when he supposedly finds out in 
PoA, is he?

That's my story anyway ;)

> wynnleaf

> Pure speculation. Zero canon that Pettigrew had anything to do 
with suspicions against Lupin. Certainly, Sirius didn't accuse 
Peter of any such planting of suspicions during his cataloging 
of Peter's wrongdoings

Goddlefrood:

Well, thanks for the reiteration there ;). It would be quite 
probable, despite the lack of canon support, that Peter was the 
one stirring up suspicions between Sirius and James and Lupin. 
Lupin was the only Marauder not to be involved in any way with 
the Secret Keeper switch, and Sirius is very quick to proffer 
apologies for his own suspicions.

Who would be left to muddy the waters, only Peter, as far as I'm 
concerned, although an alternate viewpoint would be interesting 
to see expounded on :)

Many theories have fallen on less problems than lack of canon 
support. It's not so easy to predict what's going to happen in 
the series, as many have singularly failed to before ;). I don't 
even sometimes believe my own theories, but enjoy writing them 
out and presenting them anyway.

Of course the other difficulty I have with Lupin as evil, or 
inadvertently bad at least, is that I see little value in it for 
the progress of the series. There will be quite enough problems 
for Harry to face without one more he was not expecting. This is 
why Remus is vastly different from Snape. If Snape turns out to 
be helping Harry, as I think he may (but have said more than 
enough on this in a prior thread for several lifetimes ;)), then 
that would be a bonus. If any other character turns out to be a 
hindrance, apart from Severus, who may also prove one, we would 
have to have an extremely good explanation as to why.

The Death Eaters need resolution, as do the giants, the inferi, 
the werewolves (this is the only situation I could envisage Lupin 
being less than loyal, that is if he's with the werewolves) and 
other of LV's cronies and the Ministry of Magic, who with its 
usual bumbling ways may also cause some problems, if only of a 
bureaucratic nature) Why add to these? Is it not enough for Harry 
to deal with, without Lupin or McGonagall or Hagrid, or some other 
unexpected character turning out evil too?

Additionally one of the Marauders must have some input into 
Harry's quest as the others have either died, or turned to LV's 
side (unless, as I once speculated, Peter is the ultimate double 
agent ;)). It would not be a satisfying conclusion for Remus to 
be a bad lot, not to this reader anyway.

> wynnleaf
> Since JKR has also said that Snape was a "gift of a character," 
her saying that she likes Lupin "as a character" or that he's one 
of her favorite characters does not necessarily equate to "he's a 
wonderful person and you can trust him."

Goddlefrood:

Well, see the initial caveat I extracted from my first. I do not 
write off the possibility, I just say, and I repeat this time ;) 
that I see no value in Remus turning out to be anything other 
than a help. He is flawed, iow, but he's not that flawed.

I do appreciate the balance of the arguments put forward in both 
your first and second post, quite simply I wouldn't like to buy 
it. That the groundwork has been done for such a plot twist is 
not something I would deny. It is still all rather thin and vague 
though.

Harry will indubitably suffer during Deathly Hallows, of that I 
have no doubt, I could see part of this being Lupin's death but 
not due to any betrayal.

Further on your second post many of the same criteria applied to 
Remus could equally be applied to others. Let's try as a random 
example, Peter.

1. Both he and Snape are Death Eaters who have been thought of 
as traitors by one side or another during the course of LV's 
rise, fall and rise.

2. They too were at Hogwarts at the same time.

3. As has been suggested in another thread it can not be excluded 
that Peter had something for Lily along with Snape (I favour 
neither view, but put this in anyway)

4. Both Peter and Severus are now hated by the Order's side and 
are two of the most wanted wizards.

5. They are also acccomplished liars and twisters of infomation, 
as demonstrated in particular by Peter in the shack and by 
Severus in Spinner's End.

6. Never underestimate Peter, he is a powerful wizard who can 
perform some extraordinary magic when called upon. That is one 
reason I have for Sirius's laughter in my mind. Snape has been 
underestimated by at least one of the two other top wizards in 
canon. 

7. Sirius underestimated Peter's talents and more or less writes 
off Severus's.

8. Er.

9. That's it.

10. For now ;)

Goddlefrood