[HPforGrownups] Re: Nitwit? - Remus John Lupin

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 168018

> Kirp86
> I'm afraid I'm biased in that Lupin is my favourite character. He
> reminds me, in his actions, of Harry; doing everything possible for
> his friends. This can be interpreted as weak-willed - feeling guilty
> over disobeying Dumbledore but doing it just to retain his friends,
> for example. But consider his background; he never had friends, he'd
> never been accepted before. Probably wishful thinking, but during his
> time at Hogwarts as DADA teacher, he didn't go against Dumbledore, he
> merely neglected to tell him that he had abused his trust years
> previously (trust he hadn't been given before that, and almost
> certainly hasn't since). Like Harry, I would say that Hogwarts was > the 
> one place that he felt at home, especially during that time where
> he believed two friends to be dead at the hands of the third. This
> shifted once Sirius was cleared, as of OofP his home was with Sirius.

Magpie:
I like Lupin a lot too, but I wouldn't say he does everything possible for 
his friends (I don't even know if I'd use that expression for Harry 
either--Harry will do a lot for his friends, but it's not like he centers 
his life around their problems). Lupin wants to be liked, I believe JKR 
said, and that's very different than being very loyal to his friends. He 
knew he was doing something wrong by roaming the countryside as a werewolf, 
and he didn't have to tell anybody, as wynnleaf said, just speak up and say 
they shouldn't do it. This is the same thing we see in Snape's Worst Memory, 
where Lupin isn't particularly doing something for his friends, he's just 
not standing up for what's right if he thinks his friends won't like it.

Once he's back at Hogwarts, well, I really love that Lupin covers up for 
Sirius--but it's a bad thing he's doing. It's very serious that he thinks 
Sirius is a murderer trying to kill Harry and who is a danger to other 
students. And yet he sits on important information about him just so he 
doesn't have to look bad in front of Dumbledore for his friends becoming 
Animagi years before. By that time, remember, Sirius wasn't exactly a friend 
as far as Lupin knew. His stated reason for not speaking is about himself, 
not Sirius.

> Kirp86:

> He is weak in that he has spent a lot of time doing things for and by
> himself, and when he doesn't have to, when he has his friends, he
> will do anything to keep them near.

Magpie:
His weakness is pretty specific--and it had to be strong enough to make him 
conceal important information in PoA.. In the Pensieve he sees something he 
knows is wrong and that he should stop, but pretends he doesn't see it 
because his friends are doing it and he wants to be liked. When he doesn't 
tell Dumbledore about Sirius it again seems to be about wanting to be 
liked--Sirius isn't a friend to keep near by that point. Also, I wouldn't 
say Lupin is really driven by keeping people near. He doesn't make an effort 
to stay close to Harry and tries to push Tonks away. Not that I hold that 
against him--I think he has reasons for doing that that I can 
understand--but he's not just about keeping people close to him.

> Kirp86
Once he had the Marauders Map,
> note that he was 'examining it in his office' when he saw Sirius drag
> Ron and Pettigrew into the Whomping Willow... Is it a leap to assume
> he has been keeping an eye on it through guilt about his secret extra
> knowledge about Hogwarts? I guess I'm arguing that he isn't overtly a
> hero, but he does what he can in his own way, his flaw being he needs
> to keep the trust of those around him. He is also brave... why else
> would he be in Gryffindor?

Magpie:
I'm sure he was looking at it out of guilt, but how does that make him a 
hero, overtly or otherwise? He's got good reason to be guilty, based on what 
he thinks to be true, and has to watch for Sirius because he's made it 
impossible for other people to watch for him as well as he can. Sure he 
shows bravery  and has done good things for others, but his flaw has led to 
some seriously questionable behavior on his part. I love his questionable 
behavior.:-)

> Kirp86
> Just wanted to touch on the discussion of his Boggart lessons. He has
> been criticised in this forum for making Neville take on the Boggart
> Snape; self-confidence is not something that can be taught, but it
> can be developed in situations such as this. Does he see his own lack
> of self-confidence in Neville, who has a small friendship group he
> would do anything for, but who is suffering at the hands of an old
> adversary? Also, where is the evidence that he deliberately stopped
> Hermione from taking on her Boggart? And as well as stopping the
> classes fearful reaction to Harry's boggart, was he also protecting
> his job, and his re-found home?

Magpie:
I think the Boggart lessons is interesting, because while I do think he's 
helping Neville and that it's a natural part of the lesson, I think it is 
also kind of in Lupin's character that it makes him popular while also 
making him nice, with Snape's humiliation seemingly an unfortunate 
by-product. I just mean that I think JKR is very consistent about everybody 
and it's cool the way you can kind of see the same Lupin even here, and 
imagine how he comes across to Snape.:)

> Kirp86
> Equally, would she take Harry's last father figure and put him
> against his cause?

Magpie:
An aside, but is Lupin really a father figure? He was a beloved teacher, but 
it seems like his relationship with Harry is not a father figure one, 
exactly. Which I kind of like about Lupin. After Dumbledore and Sirius I 
really can't see the loss of Lupin comparing in Harry's life.

-m