Nitwit? - Remus John Lupin

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 168048

> Neri:
> The point is that if Lupin proves a traitor and Snape
> proves loyal, Snape will not be regarded as a stopped clock, he'll 
be
> regarded as a hero for being the one who has always warned us 
against
> Lupin (at least this is how I understood Ceridwen's point that I
> responded to). Being a hero *because* you're a bigot isn't a good
> message in a book. 

zgirnius:
But I don't think the text makes clear that Snape would be right 
*because* he is a bigot. I don't think Snape's issue with Remus, the 
individual, is that he is a werewolf, but rather, for the things 
Snape believes he did and failed to do while they were students 
together. (Notably, sharing the secret of the Whomping Willow with 
Sirius, who used it to set up a situation that could have led to 
Snape's death; and being around in the SWM and possible other 
incidents). 

Just as, in the portion I snipped, Harry's dislike for Snape is for 
things peculiar to Snape, not to the classes of greasy haired people, 
or hook-nosed people, or Slytherins.

I don't buy ESE!Lupin - I agree with Alla that Rowling would not want 
ESE!Anyone teaching her kids. But I could certainly imagine some 
scenario of the sort wynnleaf proposes coming to light. In a way it 
would be like SWM. We had been told, repeatedly, that James was 
arrogant and thought he could get away with breaking rules. Nonsense, 
we said, that's just Snape foaming at the mouth again (without 
wondering where, exactly, all this feeling was *coming* from, duh 
moment for me when it happened...) Except really, I doubt it because 
Lupin, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, has *already* caused 
problems through his desire to be liked. If he's not ESE, it's just 
sort of repetitive. I would not expect to learn any more dirt on 
James as a student in DH either, for similar reasons.


> Neri:
> I didn't disagree that plotwise this would be a nice trick for JKR 
to
> pull. I'm just saying that the price she'd have to pay for it would 
be
> in endorsing Snape's bigotry in the Shrieking Shack. 

zgirnius:
If you don't acknowledge the personal content of Snape's dislike for 
Lupin, it's really the same argument as why Snape can't be ESE 
either. Harry and other characters have expressed bigotry against 
students Sorted into Slytherin House.

> Neri:
> Note that no good guy got credit for exposing or stopping Kreacher,
> certainly not those that could appear even remotely as prejudiced
> against house-elves, like Sirius or Ron. The only good guy who might
> be able to claim some credit, namely Dumbledore, is the one who says
> upfront that Kreacher is not to be blamed. JKR took extra care not 
to
> appear as endorsing anti-house-elves bigotry.

zgirnius:
It seems to me she would need to take extra care to arrange for 
someone other than Dumbledore to expose him. The time window was 
rather narrow. Kreacher had to be unsuspected when Harry Flooed, and 
he did nothing else suspicious. Dumbledore had to learn what happened 
from him because noone stayed behind. Noone stayed behind for the far 
more important story reason that the logical someone would be Sirius, 
fugitive from justice, and he had to go so he could die. 

It could have been discovered later, but then the information would 
not have been available in the "Dumbeldore explains it all" chapters 
following the battle at the Ministry.

These seem to me far more significant considerations that force the 
outcome we got.