Neville's Boggart / The Marauder's Forays

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 168055

> In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/167975

> > Alla:
> > 
> > I am sorry, but **I** saw nothing of Lupin's arranging for Snape 
> > to be publicly humiliated in PoA. I saw Lupin trying his best to 
> > restore Neville's self confidence after **Snape** publicly 
> > humiliated him.
> 
> Pippin:
> So you are saying the *only* way for Neville's confidence to be
> restored was for Snape to be humiliated? It would speak
> poorly of Neville, IMO, if the only way he could be built up
> was to see Snape run down.

Mike:
I know Carol answered part of this line of reasoning but I'd like to 
throw in my 2 knuts, making it 4 I guess. ;)

The way I understood that Boggart lesson, Lupin was trying to teach 
the kids how to force the Boggart to assume a shape that they (kids) 
would find funny. Now knowing that the kids are not that advanced 
yet, he realizes that the kids will have to deal with their most 
frightening form as is. That is, he can't expect them to be able to 
completely change the Boggart's form, but rather to change something 
smaller that will lessen the frightfulness of the form.

Notice how Pavarti's mummy became unravelled, Dean's hand caught in a 
mouse-trap, Seamus' Banshee lost her voice, Ron's spider lost his 
legs, etc. None of them were expected to be able to completely change 
the form, just make a minor adjustment. The same was going to be true 
for Neville. He would have to have a way to make his Boggart (Snape) 
become comical. He cannot be expected to be able to change the form 
any more than the other kids would be able to.

Lupin did not pick Neville's form (Snape), but he did come up with a 
way to make that form become comical. Is there another way to do it 
(make Snape!Boggart comical) without it seeming to humiliate the real 
Snape? Try to think of one yourself, see if anything fits the bill 
and works for the story. I submit that making Snape!Boggart comical 
in any way is going to be demeaning to the real Snape. And I don't 
buy that once Neville announced that Snape frightens him most, and 
all the other kids laugh, that Lupin should say, "Sorry Neville, 
we'll have to work on yours in private. Next!" What a cruel way that 
would be to treat Neville, all because his potions teacher is a 
scary, mean bastard that treats him like s**t.

Added incentive for Lupin and Neville; Snape took an uncalled for 
shot at Neville before leaving the teacher's lounge. As Alla says, 
Snape deserved this treatment and much worse. Just the fact that a 
kid whose parents were tortured into insanity finds his potions 
teacher the most frightening thing on earth, speaks volumes to me. 
(Although I do admit that the Boggart would have to have a definite 
form to assume, not some nebulious torturer. But that doesn't obviate 
what *Neville* finds most frightening).


> Pippin:
> We can contrast the way that McGonagall dealt with Harry's
> experience with Trelawney. Harry was terrified by the prediction
> of his death, but McGonagall did not find it necessary to terrify
> Trelawney in order to restore Harry's confidence. <snip>

Mike:
Somehow Snape was terrified by Lupin's lesson? And McGonagall clearly 
spoke ill of Trelawney, without saying the actual words. It screams 
out of the page. Even Harry gets the implied "she's an old fraud" if 
he doesn't actually realize it at this time, only realizing that 
things aren't as bad as they felt up in Trelawney's smoke filled room.

> Pippin:
> Lupin might have dealt with Neville's loss of confidence in
> a similar way, and arranged for Neville to deal with his 
> boggart privately, as he did for Harry (but not for Hermione,
> who flubs her exam thereby.)

Mike:
I already addressed Neville. As for Hermione, not everyone got a shot 
at the Boggart, they had but one and he went poof after Neville's 
second foray. We didn't see Lavender's Boggart either and I assume 
there were more than just Gryffindors in the class. 

And Harry's private lesson was more than just dealing with Boggarts, 
wasn't it? It was both Lupin thinking that a Voldemort!Boggart would 
scare the bejeezus out of everyone, and later, teaching Harry the 
Patronus Charm, not the Ridikulus for Boggarts. I say "no fair" to 
call Lupin for this.

**************************
In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/167961

Pippin:
I can't speak for Wynnleaf, but Lupin speaks for himself:

"Soon we were leaving the Shrieking Shack and roaming the
school grounds and the village by night."

"And there were near misses, many of them."

"I sometimes felt guilty about betraying Dumbledore's trust,
of course...he had admitted me to Hogwarts when no other
Headmaster would have done so, and he had no idea that
I was breaking the rules he had set down for my own and
others' safety." -PoA ch 18

....

Lupin would not have had to rat out his friends-- he
only had to tell them that he didn't want them to let him
out of the Shrieking Shack any more. But, as he says
he always managed to forget his guilty feelings when it
came time to plan the next adventure.

Mike:
This may be hard to say without sounding arrogant, so feel free to 
call me such after I'm done. ;)

Pre-adult boys of a certain caliber have a burning desire to not only 
get into mischief but to up the ante of said mischief to the point of 
dangerous or illegal stunts. It's a deep rooted desire to impress 
their mates, outdo the previous generation, and acquire that 
adrenaline rush one gets from defying danger. Add to that, they are 
immortal at that age, just ask them. How does JKR portray this 
amongst wizards, who are literally immune from the kind of dangers 
that muggles would find deadly? Well, they run with werewolves.

I ran with the same type of crowd in high school. It included the 
football star, the most popular boy, the good looking guy, the 
hangers-on type of guys, etc. If a werewolf was around, we would have 
invited him along. ;D James, Sirius, Remus and even Peter would have 
fit right in. And *nobody* could have convinced us we were doing 
anything wrong. It would have to come from within the group which 
eventually does. 

The Marauders were acting according to their nature, imo. You might 
just as well try to convince a male lion not to try to take over a 
rival lion's pride as to try to convince the Marauders that they 
can't go out on their monthly jaunts. It wasn't just a rite of 
passage to them, it was their right as heir to the throne, the future 
kings of the pride. 

JKR said that she has noticed how many adults have forgotten what it 
was like to be young and powerless. She could also have added how 
many adults have forgotten what young males will do in the name of 
excitement. 

Does that mean they're acting irresponsibly? Hell yes, but that's the 
point. And the more trouble they could get in if they were caught, 
the better the chance that they will continue or ratchet up the ante. 
And I would wager that Fred and George had done a lot worse things 
than sneaking off to the kitchens or into Hogsmeade after hours. I 
remember Hagrid complaining about having to chase them out of the FF 
numerous times. What do you suppose they were doing in there?

One last thing. Lupin claims he "led" his friends to become Animagi 
and implies it was also his fault for their werewolf explorations. 
Does anyone buy this mea culpa? I don't see how Lupin should be the 
one to shoulder the blame, nor do I think he is solely responsible 
for putting a stop to them. In fact, I would definitely place much 
more of the responsibility on James and Sirius, not that it would 
matter to them. 

Mike