DH info on the Marauders and Snape was Nitwit Remus John Lupin

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 168121


>Dana 
> Maybe he was right maybe Snape did deserve it because we actually 
do 
> not know what Snape contribution was in it. 

wynnleaf
You know, I don't think there's much argument that I can make that 
will do much good when the perspective is that a 16 year old might 
be the victim of attempted murder and "deserve it."  We have no real 
evidence that Snape ever did *anything* to the Marauders other than 
defend himself and not even James can come up with any reason to 
have attacked Snape when Lily -- the girl he wants to look good for -
- asks him why.  Yet you *still* want to suppose that perhaps 
Snape "deserved" attempted murder.  If Snape wanted to get the 
Marauders expelled, one can hardly blame him.  Who *wouldn't* want a 
group of bullies out of there, when they targeted him so much?

Sorry, but 16 year Snape didn't "deserve" attempted murder, even if 
it would not have been premeditated (which it was, even if murder 
was not the intent.

But it's almost pointless to argue the finer details if that's your 
opinion.

Dana
Personally I do believe Sirius when 
> he says Snape was always trying to get them expelled and that it 
> played a part in them even being able to play a trick on Snape and 
if 
> he had gotten more then he could chew because of it then he 
actually 
> brought it on to himself. Sorry you might disagree but I would not 
> change my mind about someone deserving it either if he got himself 
> into it. 

wynnleaf
Well, there you go.  A kid is being bullied.  He sees a chance to 
get some proof of wrongdoing that could get the bullies expelled.  
He breaks the rules and goes out at night (Oh! how horrible!  the 
Marauders would *never* do such a thing!), and if he "got himself" 
into that trouble, he "deserved it."  He deserved what??  To die?  
Honestly!  

Mean Snape was trying to get those sweet Marauders who weren't doing 
anything to hurt anyone -- just boys being boys putting the whole 
community's lives in danger -- but who cares?  They're the good 
guys.  Anyone trying to get them caught in their rulebreaking and 
get them expelled, so they can't bully anyone anymore, deserves it 
if one of the Marauders tricked him into a deadly situation.  Right.

Good grief.

Another comment that applies to several arguments of Dana's and 
Alla's.  There is an idea that we're going to learn some new 
information in DH that shows how bad Snape was as a student -- 
something that will show how culpable he was during that time that 
those much maligned Marauders (huh?) were getting detentions right 
and left, chasing around the countryside endangering the community, 
and bullying people.  

There's two problems with this.

1.  JKR is not writing, nor going to write, "The Exhaustive History 
of the Marauders and Snape" which covers their day-to-day activities 
throughout school.  So whatever she actually puts down on the page, 
that's all we'll have to go by.  No amount of suppositions ("Snape 
could have been hexing people constantly.  Just because we're not 
told doesn't mean he wasn't," is no argument at all once the 7th 
book is published.  It's hardly any argument now.  Because all we 
have to go on is what we're told.  And if we're given no evidence or 
hint of a thing, we can't just suppose it to be true.

2.  All readers expect revelations in Book 7.  But apparently many 
readers do not really expect surprise twists.  And surprise twists 
is what JKR likes best (yes, she's said so), so we *should* expect 
them.  Not just new info and revelations, but things that create 
surprise twists.  

Surprise twists are surprises for the protagonist.  This is 
important, because typically, the reader is supposed to be following 
the protagonist's path.  After 6 books, the die-hard fans have 
theories all over the place, that Harry himself would never 
suspect.  We may not be too surprised regardless what the twist.  So 
the surprise twist is mainly what surprises Harry and any readers 
who mainly just follow Harry's point of view.   Further, surprise 
twists are not new pieces of info that only serve to add a bit more 
color to an already revealed character or incident.  Surprise twists 
aren't things that show us that the character Harry thought was bad 
really was bad, or that the character Harry thought was good and 
noble is, yes indeed, good and noble after all.  

The books thus far have been primarily seen through Harry's point of 
view.  Through Harry, Snape is seen as really mean, nasty, and now 
the evil traitor.  Therefore any surprise twists for Snape will only 
counter this picture, not support it.  Otherwise, they aren't 
surprise twists.  

Of course, there won't be surprise twists for every character and 
incident, only a few.  But the most likely areas for surprise twists 
are in characters and incidences where JKR is concealing a lot.  For 
instance, if we know JKR is concealing a lot about Godrics Hollow 
(and we do know it), then the surprises she'll reveal almost 
certainly will *not* be mundane and only verify the story that Harry 
now knows.  The concealed info about Godrics Hollow will almost 
definitely lead Harry into a surprising twist of perspective.  
That's just the way it works.

Ditto for Snape as a character, his history, and probably the 
Shrieking Shack incident.  JKR is concealing a lot.  She isn't 
concealing it simply to confirm the picture of Snape that Harry 
already has -- mean, nasty and evil traitor.  She's concealing it so 
that she can surprise Harry and thereby readers that follow Harry 
(which granted, many die-hard fans don't).  

Therefore, arguments that we're going to find out in book 7, 
heretofore concealed information that will only confirm to Harry and 
the reader that Snape is mean and bad, are highly, highly unlikely.

The concealed information -- especially any info that's been 
concealed for the entire season -- is going to surprise Harry, not 
just confirm his thoughts and attitudes and suppositions.  
Otherwise, there was very little point in keeping the info concealed 
in the first place.

If Snape is really evil, we probably won't find much of any new 
information on his youth.  Because any new info that only confirms 
his nastiness isn't valuable to Harry who's already convinced of it 
anyway.

wynnleaf