Patronuses (was Re: Dumbledore: Patronus and Dementors (specifically Snape's)

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 174057


> 
> Carol responds:
snip
(McGonagall, who apparently never fell
> in love, has a Patronus to match her Animagus, but that doesn't seem
> to be usual. And it's a bit disturbing that Umbridge's is also a 
cat.)

Potioncat:
Oh, that bothers you? How do you think it makes me feel? ;-)
Come to think of it, do we know it's Umbridge's Patronus? I'm really 
surprised she can cast one---stubby little fingers and short wand!

But for McGonagall---how do we know she's never been in love? Besides 
the Patronus doesn't always reflect a romantic source, as we see in 
Harry's case. So the cat could reflect herself--as you and I both 
seem to think, though for different reasons---or it could reflect a 
different witch/wizard who also has feline attributes. OR, she could 
have been in love, but he was weak...

Carol:
> Anyway, I think Hermione's otter Patronus reflects Ron, not her own
> playful spirit! :-)

Potioncat:
You're probably right, but I thought it might reflect the whole 
Weasley family.


> Carol:
snipping an excellent section about Snape's views. Totally agree.< 
> I do wonder what other form of communication he used to communicate
> with the Order. 

Potioncat:
I know JKR said Snape didn't use the Patronus with the Order, but 
that just doesn't make sense. I'm still wondering if she meant he 
didn't communicate after he killed DD.

Has anyone found the comment about Lily's Patronus being a doe? Do we 
know for sure that anyone other than DD would recognise its 
symbolism? It would make as much sense for the doe to represent a 
mother or grandmother or some other witch. (I know "we" know it's 
Lily, I'm just questioning whether they knew.)

Carol:
 His students, however, would not have
> understood that a Patronus does not represent the caster, and I can
> see why he chose not to teach that spell.

Potioncat:
JKR said at her site that the Patronus spell was not taught at 
Hogwarts. I took that to mean it was beyond NEWT level. Harry only 
learned it because Lupin taught him privately.

Now, Snape wouldn't want to add it to his lessons because it would 
give away too much to the DE children. I don't think a Dark Wizard is 
supposed to be able to cast one. But I don't think its form would be 
a problem.
> 
Carol:
quoting DH
"... Her presence had meant safety" (367).

Potioncat:
Isn't it interesting that Harry is so drawn to Snape as the HBP and 
to his Patronus, but not to the man. And for 6 books some of us have 
known Snape was trying to keep Harry safe.
> 

 
> Carol, tantalized by our glimpses of Snape's magical prowess and
> wishing that he could somehow have lived

Potioncat:
I think that was one of the reasons I was so sad. JKR wrote him as a 
gifted wizard, and it turned out to be so much wasted potential-- 
partly because of his early stupid decisions!

Marion11111 wrote in ---946 (Forgot the first 3 numbers)

 
> marion:
> Yeah, well, we all have our little ships.  Do suppose the 
filmmakers gave Ginny a horse because it's a hoofed animal?  Or 
weren't they thinking about that at all?

Potioncat:
I've long sense given up on what film-makers do with the material. 
Oh, and I should quickly add, I do not endorse Black/Lupin ship.

> 
> marion:
snip
  I imagined them as representative of the person and unchangable.  I 
was willing to accept Harry having his father's as maybe a "passing 
on the tradition" thing, but I wasn't sure I liked that Tonks' had to 
change over Lupin.

Potioncat:
Well, it's canon that the form can change under certain conditions, 
but I didn't think Lupin did a good job of explaining it. Of course, 
he had good reasons not to be too clear about it.


> 
> marion:
> At the time, I though he was being spiteful.  And he was, but now I 
wonder if he was making a comment about himself also.

Potioncat:
I don't think so. His Patronus seems pretty powerful based on the 
quoted and snipped section. I once suggested that Tonks's previous 
Patronus had reflected Snape and he was upset at her transfer of 
affections. (It was a joke!)

I'm not sure why I've latched onto Patronus canon as my pet project--
perhaps the other threads are too sad or too deep--but this is the 
one issue I keep pounding on.

One more point: I think the rule is: If it's important to the story, 
the Patronus reflects someone who is the source of the caster's 
strength. If it isn't important to the story, the Patronus is chosen 
at JKR's whim. 

I think Ron's Jack Russell Terrier is the type of dog JKR has. Unless 
someone can come up with a character it could represent?

Potioncat, it's late I'm tired, and I know there must be a million 
spelling errors. Very sorry.