Danger in designating an "Other" / Bad magic

[Beatrice23]

No: HPFGUIDX 174150

> Beatrice:
> I suspect however, that Malfoy,is perhaps (although 
> > it has not been widely discussed) is truly at the heart of this 
> > discussion, as readers many have been hoping that Malfoy would be 
> > redeemed through the novel  a lot of fan fiction ink has been 
> spilled 
> > on this particular subject.  Snip
> 
> Magpie:
> I find this a bit condescending--well, really a lot condescending. 
> The extreme version of this argument is: "You're just mad because 
we 
> wanted leather pants Draco," and you've followed it with your own 
> personal interpretation of the character as being somebody who only 
> wants power and doesn't have the brains to seek redemption. Leaving 
> aside that I don't completely agree with your interpretation of 
> what's in canon (but you can find yours in fanfic too), and that 
you 
> can't claim to know the motivations of why everyone who is 
> dissatisfied, this argument still doesn't say anything about the 
> actual problem. 


Beatrice:  I'm sorry, but who is exactly being condescending here?  
It is my understanding that this is a discussion board and that 
disagreement over one's interpretation / reading of the text is 
allowed, but that respectful disagreement is key.  My comment stems 
from several posts in this thread where people indicated that they 
wanted to see a fully redeemed Slytherin house, which yes led to me 
*gasp* theorizing as to why people might have wanted this.  Perhaps, 
because I think as many others indicated that this type of "fairy 
tale" ending would have been difficult to swallow for many of us - 
myself included.  It is however unclear what specifically you are 
disagreeing with my "interpretation."  

Sistermagpie:
 
> The argument here just really seems to be jumping around in 
> sometimes contradictary ways, so that you agree that Slytherin is 
> presented in this negative way, then defend it as if the author was 
> trapped into presenting it that way when really she knew it was 
> something else, then say it really did contain the things people 
> want but they weren't written in, but if that doesn't work maybe 
> there's something wrong with you. 

Beatrice: I really enjoy the someting "wrong" with me bit.  As this 
again seems to go against the spirit and the etiquette of this 
discussion board.  And my argument isn't jumping around in 
contraditory ways, although admittedly, I could spend a lot more time 
fleshing it all out.  I agree that the qualities / attributes of 
those individual characters who are sorted into Slytherin are in many 
ways the anthesis of Harry, et al within the novels.  Thus we and 
Harry are locked into a stereotyping that sometimes proves true and 
sometimes does not.  But because the narrative of the story is bound 
so tightly to Harry's perspective, it isn't possible for the reader 
to see much further beyond that narrative viewpoint.  And as such 
would it be plausible given Harry's history and perspective to 
completely heal the rift between Slytherin and the other houses?

> 
> To me it seems a lot more simple: JKR wrote the story a certain 
way, 
> she had a certain view of Slytherin house that she presented 
> perfectly well. But what she wanted to say just wasn't satisfying 
> for some readers. 
> 
Beatrice:  That is fine....although I can't remember attacking 
anyone's perspective, just offering a couple other things for 
people's consideration that haven't yet appeared.


> Magpie:
> Harry's perspective is the only perspective (except for the scenes 
> not in his perspective)--and while there are places where Harry's 
> perspective is clearly different than the author's, that doesn't 
> make it totally unreliable. 

Beatrice:  I never stated that Harry was unreliable only that he was 
influenced by his history and his own bias.  

Magpie:. To quote Sydney's great metaphor, it's 
> not like JKR's filming a documentary here and she just doesn't have 
> the footage to give the impression she wants. The impression Harry 
> has of the Slytherins is all we have, and I see no reason to think 
> it's so skewed I as a reader don't have an accurate picture of 
> Slytherin. 

Beatrice:  Pardon the cliche, but you hit the nail on the head "to 
give us the impression she wants."  You assume two things 1. JKR's 
impression is the same as Harry.  You may be correct, but it is not 
really in keeping with contemporary practices of Literary Theory and 
exegesis.  2. maybe it is an accurate picture, after all there are 
people in the world of great ambition who will do anything and 
anything to achieve their ends (this is from the sorting hat's 
discription in PS.).  But it doesn't mean that it is the ONLY 
accurate picture of Slyterin.
 
> Beatrice:
> 
>  Well, 
> > let's see, just a quick glance...a member of Slytherin house 
> murdered 
> > his parents, from his initial introduction to Hogwarts 
Slytherin's 
> > have been bullying, across the board people connected with the 
> house 
> > have worked tirelessly to bring about his destruction, and 
perhaps 
> > most importantly, Harry fears the qualities in himself that seem 
> to 
> > associate him with that house. 
> 
> 
> Magpie:
> How is the fact that Harry's experience of Slytherin has been 
almost 
> all negative (and that includes a lot of Slytherins) a defense 
> against the fact that Slytherin comes across negatively? They're 
> supposed to come across that way, aren't they? Harry's fears that 
he 
> might have those qualities make sense--though ultiamtely he's fine 
> with having the qualities. What we might assume are Slytherin 
> qualities are quite sexy on Harry. 
> 
> Beatrice:
> 
> Also, many people have pointed to the 
> > fact that the battle at Hogwarts seems to be fought singularly by 
> the 
> > other three houses, yet we know that at some point Slughorn 
> returns 
> > and that Snape has been fighting all along.  Perhaps, because of 
> > Harry's limited perspective and his limited knowledge of the 
> members 
> > of Slytherin there are others who are do return to fight, but 
> simply 
> > go unnoticed by Harry and thus by us, because of the limited 
> > narrative. 
> 
> Magpie:
> Given the set up I absolutely can't just assume they came back to 
> fight. There's nothing so wrong in Harry's perspective that 
> suggests, imo, that I should stick in a bunch of Slytherins to fix 
> it. If they were there we'd know it and so would he. Is it so 
> important that Slytherin students should have returned? 

Beatrice: No, it isn't not for me anyway.  I am just pointing out the 
constraints of the narrative itself, not making editorial suggestions 
as the only thing I am really dissatisfied with is the epilogue.


> 
> Beatrice: 

> 
> Beatrice:
> 
> Now let's consider a couple of 
> > members of Slytherin (from the few we know).  Pansy Parkinson 
> > specifically her call to hand Harry over to LV at the end.  Is 
> this 
> > an act of evil?  Or is Parkinson acting out of fear and her own 
> > weakness?   We as readers find it so abhorent, because of our 
> > perspective that Harry is the hero, as we know from Neville, 
> Hogwarts 
> > and the WW at large has been terrorized for many months and 
> everyone 
> > is in "mortal peril."  From Parkinson's perspective handing Harry 
> > over is about self-peservation not necessarily love of LV.  And 
> > wouldn't it be out of character for her to rise to Harry's aid, 
> just 
> > out of the blue?  
> 
> Magpie:
> Well, yeah, it would be. I don't quite see what your point is here, 
> though. I could see your point if the series wasn't over yet, but 
> now that it is, this is how it stands. Fanfic authors have been 
> giving the Slytherin perspective for years, but as you note here, 
we 
> as readers find it abhorent and it is supposed to be. 

Beatrice: You are twisting my words here.  I don't find it abhorent 
to give Slytherins a pov, I am suggesting that in the moment of 
reading, when Parkinson shouts "there's Potter, let's hand him over 
to LV"  (not an exact quote as I don't have my text) we as readers 
(at least I was )are appalled at her suggestion and touched at how 
the other houses come to his aid.  What I am pointing out here is 
several people have discussed how every member of Slytherin is 
characterized as "evil."  I am using Pansy to illustrate this, but we 
could discuss other characters also.  And while one can see Pansy's 
willingness to hand Harry over as an act of evil to reinforce this 
notion, I simply want to suggest that there are other ways of looking 
at her "choices" and even Malfoy's choices instead of seeing them as 
acts of evil.  We can see them as acts of fear or trying to find 
their own glory.  After all, Pansy is hardly the only person to try 
to hand Harry over to Death Eaters.  X. Lovegood tries to do this 
also out of fear for his daughter's life.  

Beatrice, who loves the discussion, but could do without the rudeness.
>