Predictions for the End (what I think, hope and know)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 174234

> >>Betsy Hp: 
> > -- Harry will defeat Voldemort.  He may have a bit of help, but 
> > in the end, I'm sure it'll all come down to Harry.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Oddly enough, it more came down to a super-special wand.  So I 
> > think I'll say I got this one wrong.  Certainly in spirit this   
> > was a miss.
 
> >>Julie:  
> I don't think it was a miss, in spirit or otherwise. Harry 
> beat Voldemort because he was willing to sacrifice himself
> for others. The wand was just the instrument, again...as it
> was when Lily was willing to die for Harry. Voldemort didn't
> get it the first time, and he still doesn't get it 16 years
> later. 

Betsy Hp:
I'll admit I still don't get it.  Especially since we learn James 
stood in front of Voldemort without a wand to buy his family escaping 
time.  But, you know, by gones.  More to the point, while Harry's 
willingness to "sacrifice" himself (though I still get a wiff of 
suicide in there) got rid of one of the horcruxes, which was great, 
that final confrontation was all about who had the Elder Wand.  Which 
didn't rely on anything special about Harry at all.  It was literally 
luck that lead to Harry being the rightful owner.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Well, Malfoy survived (I doubt he ever really lived though, poor 
> > boy).  But his role was the definition of unimportant.  I totally 
> > blame HBP, though.  Silly me, taking that book seriously.

> Julie:
> I was hoping for a little more spine from Draco too, which
> was probably a product of my own desires more than any
> canon from the books. Draco never showed a lot of spine 
> when he was in danger, and he never showed any real interest
> in changing his outlook on Muggles or the WW. So I can
> accept that DH Draco was a reasonable extension of that
> character.

Betsy Hp:
If you totally ignore HBP.  Draco (as he's done in past books) showed 
a great determination to put up with a lot of personal pain and 
stress to do something he thought worth doing.  In this case, fixing 
the cabinet to save his family.  He also went a bit gobsmacked when 
Dumbledore (while dying no less) told him not to use the 
word "mudblood".  Which seemed to indicate something.  As did Draco's 
not standing with the Death Eaters and refusing to murder Dumbledore 
even at their repeated urging.  

But all of that was meaningless.  Draco's point, it turned out, was 
to get the Elder Wand and pass it on to Harry.  All in complete 
ignorance naturally (Draco's and Harry's).

Draco was teetering on the cusp of something as of HBP.  He continued 
to teeter in DH, and seemed to still be perched there in the 
Epilogue.  Which acutally makes sense given the status of Slytherins 
in JKR's world.  The best they can hope for is limbo.   

> >>Betsy:
> > -- Snape is, and has been for the course of the books, solidly 
> > and unwaveringly DDM. 
> > <snip>

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I'm calling this one wrong.  I assumed "man" and all along Snape 
> > was Dumbledore's dog.
> > <snip>

> >>Julie:
> I disagree. Snape was never Dumbledore's dog. He made a promise
> because he loved Lily, and he kept it, first for her, and
> eventually because I think his principles did shift (he was
> willing to continue with the plan even after he found out
> that Lily's son was to be sacrificed for the sake of the WW).
> But he could have left any time and pursued his own agenda
> (whatever that might be--and I can now see an AU fanfic 
> where Snape kidnaps Harry and locks him away to save him
> from his fate!). 
> 
> Seriously, I don't see how Dumbledore owned Snape. 

Betsy Hp:
I saw it in Dumbledore's complete lack of care when he informed Snape 
that Snape would be murdering Dumbledore at some future point to 
further Dumbledore's plans.  And I saw it in Snape's incredibly 
feeble protest.  Snape was not a thinking man.  He was Dumbledore's 
creature.  Which is what Dumbledore, being evil, wanted.  

Heh.  To further the "creature" thing.  Snape, like Kreature, 
followed the orders of a dead person's portrait.  Not even death 
could release them.

> >>Julie:
> I do agree that Dumbledore took a step down from all-powerful
> all-wise God-like to simply a man who'd made his own critical
> mistakes and had suffered and eventually learned from them.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Oddly enough, I thought Dumbledore moved in a reverse direction.  I'd 
always thought of him as a smart man, but a man none the less, doing 
the best he could with limited information.  Skin-of-his-teeth-
Dumbledore, was how'd I'd describe him.

Instead it seems that Dumbledore was locked in his tower, cackling 
over his plans, that included a child sacrifice naturally, 
manipulating people to his own ends, and ignoring his student body.  
Except to judge them harshly if they failed him.  Very Old-Testament 
god-type, IMO.

> >>Julie: 
> I did shake me a little that the Dumbledore who was so set
> on saving Draco's soul seemed to care so little about Snape's.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Given that Slytherins don't have souls worth worrying about, I 
suspect Dumbledore faked his worry to further pressure Snape.  
("Think of the children!" cries the old man who'd never thought of 
the children in his life.)  He needed Snape well tucked into 
Voldemort's side so to better position his sacrificial lamb. 

> >>Julie:
> He had no extraordinary wisdom or empathy for others beyond that of 
> an old man whose been through many experiences. 
> In short, he was just a man.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'd say he was something less than that.  He was clever I grant you, 
but I think he had only a monster's worth of empathy.  Empathy is 
something not very much valued in this series honestly.  Maybe 
because it's a virtue associated with water? (She says, still trying 
to make sense of the whole thing, which she should honestly stop 
trying to do. <g>)

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > Lucky (or not?) that no one snuck up behind Harry and beaned him 
> > while he was mid-explanation of who had the biggest wand.

> >>Julie:
> I didn't actually have a problem with this, as Voldemort
> has said over and over again that Harry is for him. So I
> wouldn't expect any DEs to interfere.  

Betsy Hp:
Hee! That's very true.  It was a battle between dumb and dumber, and 
fortunately for Harry, Voldemort was dumber.

> >>Betsy Hp:  
> > -- I still think someone we think is good will turn out to 
> > be working for Voldemort.  No real solid clue on who though.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Gosh, no!
> > <snip of sour grapes>

> >>Julie:
> I rather suspected this too. But I put that expectation all
> on myself (happily knowing I was *far* from alone). There 
> was absolutely nothing in canon that demanded someone in
> the side of good was working for Voldemort.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Oh, you're absolutely correct.  I was seriously sour grape-ing up 
there.  And most likely this wouldn't have bothered me at all if 
everything else hadn't gone completely pear-shaped.  It's not really 
that I needed to be right, it's just where I was wrong (good in 
everybody) is where I most needed to be right in order to enjoy the 
story.  This one clashed horribly with my own personal philosophy.

> >>Betsy:
> > -- Somehow the four houses of Hogwarts working together will be 
> > a  key to defeating Voldemort (finding the horcruxes maybe?).

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > The pain...  oh, the pain...

> >>Julie:
> I am with you on this. JKR dropped a lot of hints that the
> Houses had to unite, that they had to work together to
> defeat Voldemort. I assumed that included Slytherin, who
> was after all the only House *out.* So I am a little 
> disappointed it didn't happen.

Betsy Hp:
I didn't think I was insane on that one.  I was sure there were some 
hints and foreshadowing that went absolutely nowhere.  So I'm glad of 
that at least.  But no, this is the disappointment that crushed me.  
The other world-view, that sliding scale of worthiness JKR set up 
with her horrible, bullying, violent Gryffindor's on top killed the 
series dead for me.  And then desecrated the body. 

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > (Wasn't Luna super-duper annoying at that final feast though?  It 
> > was like she was suddenly Harry's grandmother or something.  Or   
> > was that just me?)

> >>Julie:
> <snip>
> I'd have to re-read the feast part as I don't recall Luna being    
> particularly annoying. But her father sure was!

Betsy Hp:
Luna's father was *creepy*!  I thought he'd killed her and mummified 
her remains during that tea scene.  What I recall being annoyed at in 
the closing feast was Luna's shepherding of Harry, her "I'd want some 
peace and quiet if it were me" thing.  Seemed a bit forced, IMO.  But 
then by that point *everything* seemed forced to me.  So I'm probably 
not the best judge. <g>

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Eep.  Again, this was back before I realized the depth of sin 
> > attached to being a Sltherin.  Not only does Snape die, not only 
> > was it anticlimactic, but by that point I didn't even care.      
> > Seriously, I think an eye-roll was about my only reaction.  (Why 
> > did JKR even *bother* with a Snape character?)

> >>Julie: 
> I really wanted Snape to live too. But I knew he was almost
> certain to die. I do find it odd though that you didn't care
> about Snape living or dying by the point of his death scene.
> We hadn't even learned his story yet, and I knew more was
> coming.

Betsy Hp:
By that point I knew Snape's story was going to be a coda.  And a not 
very important one at that.  We were too close to the end and Harry 
didn't even have any blood-rage left for Snape (for no apparent 
reason).  So I realized that Snape was completely unimportant when it 
came to JKR and the story.  So yeah, at that point I just thought, of 
course he dies in a meaningless fashion like this.  She's got to 
drive home his utter lack of worth.

> >>Julie:
> I do understand your reaction about it being anticlimactic
> though. When I finished that chapter I just sat there in
> stunned disbelief, thinking "That's it? Finally we get 
> Snape, and the first thing he does is die?" I certainly 
> cared though. I was furious!

Betsy Hp:
By that point I was bitterly numb.  I just kept on in morbid 
fascination to see what further ugliness JKR could throw up.

> >>Julie:
> Again, I don't think Snape was Lily's dog in any way. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
For me it's because the friendship was so obviously one-sided.  Lily 
got information out of Snape but she was too "lily-white" to fully 
care for the dark Slytherin boy.  He was beneath her and they both 
knew it.  (JKR says differently in her interviews, but this is what 
DH says, IMO.)

> >>Julie:
> I am sorry it was so disappointing for you, Betsy. I didn't
> get all I wanted--which makes it sound like it was Christmas
> morning and we didn't get what we asked for in our stockings! 
> --but it was always JKR's story and we were always just 
> interested bystanders. 

Betsy Hp:
Hee! The Christmas analogy is perfect. <g>  And of course it's JKR's 
story and of course I'm just a bystander.  But it was a serious let-
down for me because I have serious issues with the over-arching 
theme.  And quite honestly, the theme was there to be seen.  There'd 
been others arguing all along that there was a sliding scale of worth 
at Hogwarts no matter what characters actually did.  It's such a 
horrible view of the world I couldn't believe anyone would dedicate 
seven books and that much time to perpetuating it, but I was quite 
wrong.  This is my lament. <bg>

Betsy Hp (going through the steps)